Converting 4 conductor wiring to 2 conductor

surfguy13

Hi Guys

I have a Jack Briggs Saturn that is a 2 humbucker guitar with coil tap options anda single volume and tone pot.  The pickups are two SDs with 4 conductor wiring.  I rarely use the coil tap options and given that I have a pair of very nice 2 conductor humbuckers I thought it would be nice to see if it was possible to convert the wiring to use these pickups. 

The switch is a Fender type 5 way switch to allow for the two tap options so I was wondering if there was any way that I could replace the 5 way switch for a standard 3 way Fender style switch and then wire in the pair of 2 conductor humbuckers?

I should add that I am NOT very technical but if it was relatively idiot proof I'd really like to have a go.  I've installed new switches in strats and teles before and that was fairly straightforward but I have no idea if this concept would work?  The existing switch looks pretty different from a 5 way switch for a strat for example so maybe the idea is a bit simplistic.

My thoughts were to simply remove the existing pickups and also the 5 way switch intact with all the wiring in place leaving just the pots and the output jack.  I could then return it to stock if I ever wanted to. 

I'll include a photo of the guitar and the rear compartment but can easily take more photos if these don't provide enough information.  Thanks in advance for any views/ideas! 

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/guymerchant/JackBriggsSaturn007_zpsf37dd2e8.jpg

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/guymerchant/Jack Briggs Saturn/jackbriggsmk2003_zps9be9bce0.jpg

ICBM

Yes, it's easy. You need a standard Telecaster 3-way switch (only use CRL, all others are less good/crap) and wiring.

http://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/images/content/2103_08/Blogs/Sep13_PG_CLM_ModGarage_image_WEB.jpg

The 'black' wire from each pickup is the bare outer shield on a 2-conductor humbucker, and the 'white' is the core wire (usually black, in fact!).

Looking at where the switch is in your guitar it will be easiest to connect the neck pickup shield to the volume pot and the bridge one to the tone pot, but otherwise it should be the same.

surfguy13

ICBM said:

Yes, it's easy. You need a standard Telecaster 3-way switch (only use CRL, all others are less good/crap) and wiring.

http://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/images/content/2103_08/Blogs/Sep13_PG_CLM_ModGarage_image_WEB.jpg

The 'black' wire from each pickup is the bare outer shield on a 2-conductor humbucker, and the 'white' is the core wire (usually black, in fact!).

Looking at where the switch is in your guitar it will be easiest to connect the neck pickup shield to the volume pot and the bridge one to the tone pot, but otherwise it should be the same.

Wow, I can't believe that it really is that easy!  I already have a tele 3 way switch so there seems no reason why I shouldn't get them installed.  I really appreciate you including the link for as it's an excellent diagram and great to use as a template for the wiring.

Many thanks and........wish me luck!   

ICBM

No problem - it's not my diagram, it's originally from Seymour Duncan.


I also forgot to say, there's no need to modify the volume/tone control wiring even though it's different to your guitar - only the switch. Your guitar is wired "50s style" with the tone control connected to the pot output.

What's the large round black cap in the middle of the cavity, out of curiosity?

surfguy13

ICBM said:

No problem - it's not my diagram, it's originally from Seymour Duncan.


I also forgot to say, there's no need to modify the volume/tone control wiring even though it's different to your guitar - only the switch. Your guitar is wired "50s style" with the tone control connected to the pot output.

What's the large round black cap in the middle of the cavity, out of curiosity?

That's great re modifying the volume/tone control wiring, I just assumed that  could leave it as it is but that view was based on no information at all!!

OK, the black cap between the two pots is a bit of a mystery.  There is a brass plate running beneath and between the vol/tone pots and that black caps sits in the middle of the plate.  The black bit is a rubber 'lid' which appears to be removable but I can't remove it at the moment as there is a white wire running between the two pots that is stretched tight immediately above it.  However, I assume it is an earth connection of some sort beneath the black rubber lid?  There is a single thin wire disappearing into a hole in the body beside the cap and I assume that's an earth wire of some sort? 

There is another wire coming from the switch that t-bones the white wire stretched above the lid and a spur of wire disappears under the black rubber lid.  Again, I assume an earth of some sort.  I just haven't got enough light to make out what's going on but will take a photo tomorrow morning and post it in the thread and maybe you might be able to take a look?  Hopefully with a bit of light on the subject I should be able to remove the black rubber lid to see what's underneath.

ICBM

Very interesting! I wonder if it's some sort of 'secret mojo tone module' or something .

A more serious possibility is a safety cap/other component for the string ground connection, which is what the wire disappearing into the wood goes to - probably to the tailpiece.

Don't try too hard to prise the 'lid' off, you may damage it - it could be some potting resin filling a component holder. A good photo showing the connections to it may help, I can't quite see enough in that pic to make it out - not a criticism! You didn't know I was going to ask .

surfguy13

ICBM said:

Very interesting! I wonder if it's some sort of 'secret mojo tone module' or something .

A more serious possibility is a safety cap/other component for the string ground connection, which is what the wire disappearing into the wood goes to - probably to the tailpiece.

Don't try too hard to prise the 'lid' off, you may damage it - it could be some potting resin filling a component holder. A good photo showing the connections to it may help, I can't quite see enough in that pic to make it out - not a criticism! You didn't know I was going to ask .

Thank goodness I didn't take it off!!!!    Unfortunately that photo of the control cavity was one I already had, taken ages ago, so I will take a couple of clear photos tomorrow and upload them to the thread if you'd be happy to have a look?  I suspected it might be something similar to the earth wire on my old 60s tele that clamps under the bridge plate.  A less cruder version though!

Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it.

surfguy13

Hi @ICBM

OK have delved a little deeper courtesy of the sunshine today and have taken some photos of the cavity, hopefully showing that strange cap between the vol/tone pots.  It seems that there are actually 5 wires from each pickup; black, white, red, green and a stripped wire.

It seems that the green and stripped wire from each pickup go to a small plate in front of the black cap.  There is then a wire from that plate that disappears into the base of the black cap.  I hope the photos show this in enough detail.  As well as the photos below I'll provide the link to the Photobucket page just in case you need to magnify the photos.  The first 8 are the shots I've just taken and I think there are more on subsequent pages:

http://s956.photobucket.com/user/guymerchant/library/Jack%20Briggs%20Saturn?sort=3&page=1

Now that I've had a look at the wiring in the light of day I have to say I feel less confident about removing the switch and replacing it with a 3-way.  This is mainly due to the wires running between the vol/tone pots as I have no idea at all what they do or are there for!! 

As always, thanks in advance...........

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/guymerchant/Jack%20Briggs%20Saturn/Jack%20Briggs%20cavity%20010_zpsbx4cby7t.jpg

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/guymerchant/Jack%20Briggs%20Saturn/Jack%20Briggs%20cavity%20009_zps0qtgpmju.jpg

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/guymerchant/Jack%20Briggs%20Saturn/Jack%20Briggs%20cavity%20008_zpsmrfjzgcv.jpg

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/guymerchant/Jack%20Briggs%20Saturn/Jack%20Briggs%20cavity%20003_zpsmmkqrtvj.jpg

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/guymerchant/Jack%20Briggs%20Saturn/Jack%20Briggs%20cavity%20004_zpsgksjmhd9.jpg

surfguy13

Not sure why the photos in the last post haven't loaded?

ICBM

Don't know, but I can see the gallery.

That component is what I thought - a safety network in the string ground connection. This is a good thing, which I have a bit of an obsession about , hence my interest - it's a very unusual feature on a commercial guitar even though the decades-old approach of directly grounding the strings is potentially dangerous.

The terminal next to it is the common ground connection.

Don't worry about the wires between the pots - the only things you need to remove are the pickups and the switch. Personally if I was you I would snip the pickup wires cleanly rather than unsoldering them, leaving a few millimetres of the coloured sleeving so it will be easier to see what goes where if you ever want to put it back. And keep these pics of course!

Given that the terminal in the middle is a common ground it would be easiest to solder the new pickup shields there, rather than to the pots, which is harder without a powerful iron.

Don't give up! It's a much easier swap this way round than the other way, and you already have the right switch

surfguy13

ICBM said:

Don't know, but I can see the gallery.

That component is what I thought - a safety network in the string ground connection. This is a good thing, which I have a bit of an obsession about , hence my interest - it's a very unusual feature on a commercial guitar even though the decades-old approach of directly grounding the strings is potentially dangerous.

The terminal next to it is the common ground connection.

Don't worry about the wires between the pots - the only things you need to remove are the pickups and the switch. Personally if I was you I would snip the pickup wires cleanly rather than unsoldering them, leaving a few millimetres of the coloured sleeving so it will be easier to see what goes where if you ever want to put it back. And keep these pics of course!

Given that the terminal in the middle is a common ground it would be easiest to solder the new pickup shields there, rather than to the pots, which is harder without a powerful iron.

Don't give up! It's a much easier swap this way round than the other way, and you already have the right switch

Quite strange about the direct link not working but at least you were able to see the photos in Photobucket, and thanks for taking the time!

Really interesting that the bar between the pots is a string ground connection.  I've never heard of these but I can see they they make really good sense.  Jack Briggs seems to have got the whole concept of building great guitars right.....they're all totally hand made by him and a little unusual.  The quality is staggering and for me the only slight weak point has been the SD pickups which don't suit me that well.

It's very encouraging to know that I can leave the wiring between the pots in situ.  The switch seems quite monstrous relative to a standard strat or tele switch but if I can just snip the pickup wires, remove the pickups and then the switch then that is certainly do-able. 

The pickups I have to go in there have a single central wire (live I assume?) and then the steel outer is the earth that I would normally solder to the top of the pot.  I assume I'd need to peel a fair bit of the outer away to solder it to the common ground?  Is it OK to do this?  Or should I just solder to the top of the pot?  I have a decent soldering station and can get the solering iron hot if needs be. 

As you say, it's a hell of a lot easier to install the new pickups/switch than to even contemplate putting the old switch back in again which porobably represents my worst nightmare given the number of terminals!!!!   

Thanks SO much for all your advice, I genuinely appreciate it and will get back to you with a photo once I've done the swap!

ICBM

surfguy13 said:

The pickups I have to go in there have a single central wire (live I assume?) and then the steel outer is the earth that I would normally solder to the top of the pot.  I assume I'd need to peel a fair bit of the outer away to solder it to the common ground?  Is it OK to do this?  Or should I just solder to the top of the pot?  I have a decent soldering station and can get the solering iron hot if needs be.

The plate is actually just a combination of a central common ground and a bit of shielding - although not much, it will help. The 'string ground' is just the wire from the black component to the tailpiece.

I think it's actually less far from the switch to the common ground than to the pots, which is why I thought it may be better to connect them there - and because the tab on the brass plate may be easier to solder to than the back of a pot, even with a big iron - and without the risk of overheating the pot. It's fine to strip back a fair bit of the braided shield - it's a bit of a faff though to do it properly, by un-braiding the wires (the tip of a knife is useful), so keeping it as short as possible is still a good idea. If you think about it, you only need to strip *half* the distance from the ground plate to the switch terminal .

That switch is certainly monstrous! Although it's a bit like a mixing desk in the sense that it's actually quite simple, just the same thing repeated multiple times. The idea is to do the complexity inside and leave the functionality for the player very simple - five sounds. The old way to do it was a collection of mini-switches - simpler to wire up, but you have to remember which combinations give which sounds when you're playing it.

No worries about helping, I actually like this stuff .

surfguy13

ICBM said:

surfguy13 said:

The pickups I have to go in there have a single central wire (live I assume?) and then the steel outer is the earth that I would normally solder to the top of the pot.  I assume I'd need to peel a fair bit of the outer away to solder it to the common ground?  Is it OK to do this?  Or should I just solder to the top of the pot?  I have a decent soldering station and can get the solering iron hot if needs be.

The plate is actually just a combination of a central common ground and a bit of shielding - although not much, it will help. The 'string ground' is just the wire from the black component to the tailpiece.

I think it's actually less far from the switch to the common ground than to the pots, which is why I thought it may be better to connect them there - and because the tab on the brass plate may be easier to solder to than the back of a pot, even with a big iron - and without the risk of overheating the pot. It's fine to strip back a fair bit of the braided shield - it's a bit of a faff though to do it properly, by un-braiding the wires (the tip of a knife is useful), so keeping it as short as possible is still a good idea. If you think about it, you only need to strip *half* the distance from the ground plate to the switch terminal .

That switch is certainly monstrous! Although it's a bit like a mixing desk in the sense that it's actually quite simple, just the same thing repeated multiple times. The idea is to do the complexity inside and leave the functionality for the player very simple - five sounds. The old way to do it was a collection of mini-switches - simpler to wire up, but you have to remember which combinations give which sounds when you're playing it.

No worries about helping, I actually like this stuff .

You're right, now that I look at the cavity again I can see that in reality it would be easier to solder the braided shield to the tab on the brass plate.  As you rightly say, you then don't have any issues with damaging the pot with excess heat.  I will have a go at un-braiding the wires properly as it will probably end up being far neater by doing this. 

I've never seen such a huge switch and maybe that's down to the fact that the guitar was made in 2003, don't know?  The wiring looks nightmarish when you first delve in there given that each pickup has 5 wires but when you actually trace each wire it's not quite as bad as it looks.  The big bonus is that I can leave the wiring between the pots alone.....once you take these wires out of the equation it's not too bad!!! 

Your help with this has made the difference between me doing it and not doing it so it is genuinely appreciated!