Replacing a Line 6 pod XT?

NelsonP

So, I've been using a Line 6 POD XT for the last few years for silent home practice. I've been pretty happy with it, except that it has that harsh, processed tone that anyone who has used a pod will instantly recognise. It's been grating on me more and more recently so I've been looking at alternatives.

Options are:
1. Updated POD type thingy - e.g. HD500x or Firehawk. Tried them both and not enough of a a step forward on tone.
2. Modelling amp - e.g. Yamaha THR, Boss Katana, Fender Mustang. I've tried the first two any whilst pretty good, they lack the organic feel that you get from a valve amp and don't feel like enough of a step up from the POD
2. Small valve amp with headphone out - e.g. Blackstar HT5, Marshall DSL5. Haven't tried these yet but like the idea.
3. Buy a 1 x 12 cab for my MESA/Boogie .50 Calber head, instead of the 4 x 12 that I have currently (would it be any quieter though?)

I need it to:
- work as a near/completely silent practice amp
- be able to DI it into my mates PA when we jam together (although I could just use a standalone amp for this).

I don't have many effects currently, but honestly don't use them that much anyway.

Feels like this might be a fairly well trodden path so any thoughts appreciated!

fretmeister

Helix.

RandallFlagg

Snap! I have a PODXT as well solely for quiet or headphone playing at home and thinking it's time it was upgraded.

I'm thinking Helix, but it's a floor unit and I like the desktop bean as it's connected to my audio interface and monitors. The Helix will sit of the floor and not be so easy to work with, although, most of the editing would be done through the desktop editor so I guess it's not a huge issue, just need to find some space on the floor where it can go.

I have also thought about the Atomic Amplifire, which is much smaller and would sit on the desk.

fretmeister

Helix rack then.

professorben

What's your budget? 
What about a reactive load box? 
You can then play your Mesa into your Daw and use IR and effects. 

Sassafras

That Neunaber Iconoclast thing looks like it could be useful for headphone playing.

NelsonP

My budget would be around £3-400 I think. Possibly a little more for the right thing.

Would a MESA cab clone do the trick?
http://www.mesaboogie.com/cabinets--simulators/guitar-cabinets--simulators/guitar-cabinet-simulator/cab-clone.html

impmann

NelsonP said:

My budget would be around £3-400 I think. Possibly a little more for the right thing.

Would a MESA cab clone do the trick?
http://www.mesaboogie.com/cabinets--simulators/guitar-cabinets--simulators/guitar-cabinet-simulator/cab-clone.html

Not based on the videos I've seen... the XT will sound better!

Fretwired

NelsonP said:

So, I've been using a Line 6 POD XT for the last few years for silent home practice. I've been pretty happy with it, except that it has that harsh, processed tone that anyone who has used a pod will instantly recognise. It's been grating on me more and more recently so I've been looking at alternatives.

Options are:
1. Updated POD type thingy - e.g. HD500x or Firehawk. Tried them both and not enough of a a step forward on tone.
2. Modelling amp - e.g. Yamaha THR, Boss Katana, Fender Mustang. I've tried the first two any whilst pretty good, they lack the organic feel that you get from a valve amp and don't feel like enough of a step up from the POD
2. Small valve amp with headphone out - e.g. Blackstar HT5, Marshall DSL5. Haven't tried these yet but like the idea.
3. Buy a 1 x 12 cab for my MESA/Boogie .50 Calber head, instead of the 4 x 12 that I have currently (would it be any quieter though?)

I need it to:
- work as a near/completely silent practice amp
- be able to DI it into my mates PA when we jam together (although I could just use a standalone amp for this).

I don't have many effects currently, but honestly don't use them that much anyway.

Feels like this might be a fairly well trodden path so any thoughts appreciated!

Before you bin the POD are you aware of the EQ trick that removes the harshness?

NelsonP

Fretwired said:

NelsonP said:

So, I've been using a Line 6 POD XT for the last few years for silent home practice. I've been pretty happy with it, except that it has that harsh, processed tone that anyone who has used a pod will instantly recognise. It's been grating on me more and more recently so I've been looking at alternatives.

Options are:
1. Updated POD type thingy - e.g. HD500x or Firehawk. Tried them both and not enough of a a step forward on tone.
2. Modelling amp - e.g. Yamaha THR, Boss Katana, Fender Mustang. I've tried the first two any whilst pretty good, they lack the organic feel that you get from a valve amp and don't feel like enough of a step up from the POD
2. Small valve amp with headphone out - e.g. Blackstar HT5, Marshall DSL5. Haven't tried these yet but like the idea.
3. Buy a 1 x 12 cab for my MESA/Boogie .50 Calber head, instead of the 4 x 12 that I have currently (would it be any quieter though?)

I need it to:
- work as a near/completely silent practice amp
- be able to DI it into my mates PA when we jam together (although I could just use a standalone amp for this).

I don't have many effects currently, but honestly don't use them that much anyway.

Feels like this might be a fairly well trodden path so any thoughts appreciated!

Before you bin the POD are you aware of the EQ trick that removes the harshness?

Yes, sweep the parametric EQ, until you hear that harsh tone, then dial it down, right? It kind of works, but needs quite a lot of tweaking to get it right.

Thing is, that none of these modellers come close to the organic response that you get from a tube amp. You try the modelling on its own and think, "wow, that's pretty amazing" but if you A/B it versus a half decent tube amp then there is really no comparison. Even in the latest generation of modellers.

Perhaps I'm trying to have my cake and eat it, but I also feel that the progress in the last 10 years or so since the POD XT came out might have made this possible.

mr-mac

I have, and my very very good guitar playing friend, are both shocked at how good the gsp1101 is (had a pod and struggled to dial sounds I wanted) gsp is a revelation and still holds up well to axefx etc.  Effects are world class, modelling is very good in c63 firmware.  it can happily do 4 cable with your amps pre in some settings and it can have modelled out via xlr and non modelled into your guitar power section... USB recording is good quality and seems stable via adios drivers. 

Like I say handed spare unit to Connor to try and he loves it. He is an amazing guitarist and plays in local bands (and still in last year of school, talent is amazing).  he reckoned it sounded better than his amp and gigged with it on hogmany.  

queensryche leave their amps at home and just take gsp1101 for foreign tours/gigs and there are a few others.

host a band jam/open morning and got to listen out front a few times to amazing players and it really produces some outstanding sounds with none of the harshness of xt and tbh hard to tell its not a quality amp.

mr-mac

Trust me, compared to pod xt I had the quality of tone and effects is a huge jumps.  I can DI without amp and you wouldn't know it wasn't a mic'd amp when out front.  The tube screener 808 is Brill, the reverb are lexicon and s/h can get unit and control 2 floorboard for about £300 

Bod

Do you have an iPhone/iPad?  Have you considered using that with something like the Line 6 SonicPort?  I use mine for silent practice and through a PA for rehearsal with Bias and it works brilliantly.

mr-mac

C63 can also handle 10 user loaded IR files

paulmapp8306

Vht powerstation.

Will let you run your mesa at whisper levels, and has a di out (no speaker emulation though iir)

mr-mac

I'd go gsp 4 cable with your mesa amp and 1x12 to cover all bases.. good headphone out on gsp and it also shows up as a playback device in windows so can jam along to some music played on pc via headphone socket on gsp

Voxman

In terms of organic tone that feels valve amp like see if you can find an original Blue Vox Valvetronix.  In these amps the valve(s) are effectively in the power section, and the valve reactor circuit responds to speaker impedance. No later version does this.  The AD60VT(X) is a 1x12 combo. The AD120VT(X) is a 2x12 stereo combo.  Add an eq in the fx loop and it takes these amps to another level.

The VTX versions are later closed back versions with birchply cabs and Neodog speakers (80w version of the Celestion G12 neodymium Century Vintage). There were also head versions, but these are harder to find. 

And for a MFX that sounds great through amp or PA, try and find a Vox Tonelab SE or LE (ignore the later TLEX/ST which are toys by comparison.  

I've tried loads of MFX inc the Line 6 HD500X, Digitech RP500/1000, Boss G10 and GT100, and Zoom G5.  And even though the TLSE and TLLE are old tech, these give the right balance of tone, ease of use, switching options and rugged build quality.  I now gig with the TLSE.  

I gigged my AD120VTX rig (inc AD212 2x12 extn cab and VC12 floor controller, plus mini fx loop pedal board of 7 band EQ, BBE sonic stomp maximiser and Boosta Grand) for years. A bad back and advancing years means that weight is a problem and hence I'm using the TLSE now. 

NelsonP

Thanks Voxman. Your comments got me looking at the AV series. I might have to give one of those a try.

professorben

@voxman the old blue Vox amps were pretty good, and I actually use a ToneLab LE and have done for years, although it's relegated to a mere Midi controller now, the fx were pretty good and I A/B tested the drive pedal TS and SD-1 models against the real thing and could hardly tell much difference, the preamps sounded 'ok' but the cab sims were terrible in comparison to modern tech. 

I think that's where the overall quality of sound has improved most, in the IR and speaker sim world. 

Voxman

professorben said:

@voxman the old blue Vox amps were pretty good, and I actually use a ToneLab LE and have done for years, although it's relegated to a mere Midi controller now, the fx were pretty good and I A/B tested the drive pedal TS and SD-1 models against the real thing and could hardly tell much difference, the preamps sounded 'ok' but the cab sims were terrible in comparison to modern tech. 

I think that's where the overall quality of sound has improved most, in the IR and speaker sim world. 

Yup, I agree with everything you say esp re cab models. I also A/B'd real pedals against the originals & found the same.  Interestingly, the chorus is also amazingly close to the Boss CE1 (chorus setting).  It's a shame Vox has now veered to the budget market - the new Tonelabs are toys in comparison and I can't help think that if Vox had developed the Tonelab properly, it could have been a real market leader.

The biggest problem with modern MFX units though is that they are all over-menu heavy, over-packed with too many amp, cab & effects models, and are awkward to use/tweak live where you need greater simplicity.  I use my TLSE & TLLE for gigging (not recording) where for me these still offer the best balance as between tone, feel, switching options, and ease of tweaking.  When you consider how old these units are (I think the TLSE came out in 2004) -  it's a real testament to Vox/Korg's advanced design & quality of the time that these pedals are still working well and are still sounding good some 13 years later - which in the fast moving modelling world is nearly an eternity ago.  

But with regards to the Blue amps, especially with an EQ & BBESS in the FX loop, these amps are still hard to beat and will hold their own and even sound better than many modern modelling amps out there today. Again, these were way ahead of their time but very expensive (in 2003 a new AD120VTX cost some £1,100 plus the VC12 floor controller was £225!).  

John_A

I'd say get a Helix - I use mine live, use a single preset 90% of the time except for a few U2 songs and I'm amazed at how good it sounds!  I spent yesterday evening playing through a 'proper' amp then plugged the Helix in and it was much better than the real thing, it's like how you would want your amps to sound if you had the luxury of playing a huge rig at big volume which most of us dont