Noise/buzz on Epi. LP Std. Plustop Pro

pekin

Hi All!

Last Christmas I was given a wonderful Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plustop Pro (quite a long name!). From the very beginning I notice some string noise (specially unplugged) so I took it to the luthier to perform an initial/basic setup (just in case because it was bought in Amazon). Few changes, action was lowered, intonation was setup and new strings “D'Addario EXL110 XL Nickel Wound Regular Light (.010-.046)”.

To be honest, I am not happy with the sound playing the guitar unplugged yet. However, the action and intonation are perfect.

I have just recorded myself playing some notes on the unplugged guitar, strings 5th and 6th and about fret 7th .

I know that you cannot do much without seeing or playing the guitar but hopefully with your experience you can work out any idea about what is going on here.

Not sure if that can be fret buzzing, no idea.

What do you think about trying a different type/brand for strings? I am using D’Addario because Epiphone is using these ones from factory (therefore are supposed to be good ones for this guitar model).

I am thinking about the neck relief.. I will try to measure it using a feeler gauge.

Despite this string noise, I am really happy with the guitar, its aesthetic, the sound from the pickups, sustain.. it keeps tuned forever with Grover tuners.

Any help will be really appreciated.

Thanks!

olafgarten

D'addario are what I use for all guitars, strings don't really get much better.

I think first you have to work out where the buzz is from, the frets, the bridge, the tuners or from hitting the pickups. 

It might be because the action is too low, how low you set the action sometimes depends on how much Buzz you can deal with. 

pekin

Thanks for your answer olafgarten!

It seems to be coming from the frets, not sure if it's coming from the previous or the following fret from where I am playing the note. It is for sure that it is not hitting the pickups.

Sassafras

I don't think you can tell much from playing it unplugged. Some guitars buzz acoustically but sound fine when amplified. It also sounds like you're hitting the strings quite hard which will only make the strings buzz even more.

thermionic

I have one of the better Chinese Epi LPs (Tribute Plus) and from the reaction of the tech when I took it in, poor fretwork and badly adjusted trussrods are par for the course for these. I had a few uneven frets which didn't cause buzzing - far worse, some notes were completely "fretting out". Some frets were high (or more likely, uneven, as it varied from string to string) which caused the note to die out if I fretted just behind a high fret. I don't know if he did a full fret dress, or identified the high ones but it plays nicely now. What I'm saying is, your guitar might need more work than just tweaking the action and intonation.

olafgarten

thermionic said:

I have one of the better Chinese Epi LPs (Tribute Plus) and from the reaction of the tech when I took it in, poor fretwork and badly adjusted trussrods are par for the course for these. I had a few uneven frets which didn't cause buzzing - far worse, some notes were completely "fretting out". Some frets were high (or more likely, uneven, as it varied from string to string) which caused the note to die out if I fretted just behind a high fret. I don't know if he did a full fret dress, or identified the high ones but it plays nicely now. What I'm saying is, your guitar might need more work than just tweaking the action and intonation.


That's strange, I have the same one and the fretwork while not perfect is very good, at least better than what I find on most Squiers. I took it to a tech and apart from a slight Truss Rod tweak and a slight levelling of a couple of the frets it was perfect. He didn't even charge me the full price for a setup because it was so quick. 

When did you get yours? 

thermionic

I got mine about 18 months ago, used but barely played. Your experience is very similar to mine - I don't know exactly what he did but it was obvious that a couple of high frets were causing problems. I suspect he levelled the offending frets rather than do a full fret dress. The OP sounds like the fretwork on his guitar might need more attention to get rid of the buzzing.

olafgarten

thermionic said:

I got mine about 18 months ago, used but barely played. Your experience is very similar to mine - I don't know exactly what he did but it was obvious that a couple of high frets were causing problems. I suspect he levelled the offending frets rather than do a full fret dress. The OP sounds like the fretwork on his guitar might need more attention to get rid of the buzzing.

Even before it didn't really buzz unless I hit the strings hard. Must be the same problem the OP is having.  

pekin

Thanks for your answers!

I think it might need some truss rod adjustment because I have just checked that feels pretty similar in all the strings - it sounds a little bit worse in the area between fret 3 and fret 9 (roughly), it is still more evident on the 6th string but it doesn't sound perfect on the other ones. I have already the feeler gauge so I will let you know as soon as I have the chance to measure it.

I don't know if it needs some fretwork, I don't think so because it doesn't buzz on particular or random frets, it looks pretty consistent.

Thanks!

pekin

I have just realised that I left some silica gel sachets (the ones coming with the guitar and the hardcase) inside the hardcase. In the beginning I thought that these sachets might help to control the humidity but now I am thinking that may be contributed to take too much humidity from the wood of the neck. What do you think?

thermionic

I'd wager there's far more available water to suck up in the furry lining of the case than the wood (and most of the wood is sealed under a thick layer of plastic anyway).

pekin

Hi All!

I have just measured the neck relief and it seems to be OK. The gap seems to be 0.010, I cannot slide easily the 0.011 gauge. I have followed this guide: http://www.dummies.com/art-center/music/guitar/how-to-check-your-guitars-neck-relief/
In my case, I put the capo on the first fret and then fretted the fret 16 (where the neck joins the body) and I have measured the fret 7 using the feeler gauge. Not sure if that is an accurate way of measuring the neck relief on my les paul, if you have any tip please let me know!

I have to admit that I was hitting quite hard the strings in the audio, which might be the main cause of the buzz. I am also planning to change the strings because they have been there for one year now (although I haven´t played too much along last year) and they might not be oscillating as they should.

I think I have been quite demanding, trying to get a perfect sound with the guitar unplugged and playing hard. 

olafgarten

pekin said:

Hi All!

I have just measured the neck relief and it seems to be OK. The gap seems to be 0.010, I cannot slide easily the 0.011 gauge. I have followed this guide: http://www.dummies.com/art-center/music/guitar/how-to-check-your-guitars-neck-relief/
In my case, I put the capo on the first fret and then fretted the fret 16 (where the neck joins the body) and I have measured the fret 7 using the feeler gauge. Not sure if that is an accurate way of measuring the neck relief on my les paul, if you have any tip please let me know!

I have to admit that I was hitting quite hard the strings in the audio, which might be the main cause of the buzz. I am also planning to change the strings because they have been there for one year now (although I haven´t played too much along last year) and they might not be oscillating as they should.

I think I have been quite demanding, trying to get a perfect sound with the guitar unplugged and playing hard. 

Try raising the action a little and see if it makes a noticeable difference, most of the time you only need to raise the bass side because that's where the buzz is. 

If it doesn't make a difference or you don't like it you can always put it back down. 

gibby

Hi, initially it sounds like your action is too low for your technique; because you're not plugging in you're probably over-hitting the strings to get sufficient volume(as you stated above). Without seeing the guitar, it could be a few things
1. Your strumming
2. The bridge/saddles are too low..
3. The neck relief is too flat..
4. Your nuts slots are cut too deep 
5. Inconsistent fret heights...and any combination of these 5 factors.

If you're not sure about how to set up a guitar take it to someone who is. I'd take it back to whoever set it up for you and tell him your problems; if he's a decent guy he should do it for you for free

If , for some reason, you can't take it back, then slightly de-tune the guitar,raise the bridge (adjustment posts); re-tune and fret at the 12 fret (Initially)..repeat on each string until buzz goes. Then check for buzzing at 13,14,15....22 fret. It's important to do this using your normal picking technique..IGNORE any feeler gauge specifications ..if it buzzes, it's too low!! Once that's sorted, play the guitar in the lower frets(1-12) "looking" for buzzes along the neck;again, especially around frets 3,4 and 9. If there's any buzzing, slacken off the truss a very small amount and re-check until no more buzz. Once that's done, strum/pluck the open stings..if it's buzzing at the 1st fret then your nut slots are either too deep and you'll need a new nut or shim, or you're a heavy strummer.

This is a very very basic set up guide;a light strummer can get away with a lower action than a heavier strummer;
 if you don't know what you're doing, take it someone who does   Practice set-ups on cheap guitars before trying on your main guitar..Hope you get it sorted

PS Forget to mention, the other possibility is a warped/"S" shaped neck...lets hope its not that

pekin

Thank you all for your feedback!

Firstly I am going to restring the guitar with new ones to see how it sounds.
Do you think it can make a difference a neck relief of 0.012 vs 0.010?

Regarding the action, it is lower than the factory setup but I don't think it is too low, the buzzing while strumming seems to be the same when I left the guitar for setting it up. I prefer to reeducate my strumming rather than raising the action, I think these humbuckers sound loud enough to produce a great sound with light strumming.
I believe the luthier did a good job with that and I think he would have spotted an inconsistent fret heights.

I will keep investigating and try to determine whether the nut slots are cut too deep. If I don't find an answer I will take it to someone to have a look.

Thanks!

Veganic

Have you ever played a guitar that you did like?

Go try some out at a shop.  You might be suprised by how much you can make all of them buzz.  Or you might find you really have a problem.  

gibby

P I think you're missing the point(s).A GOOD luthier/tech would have asked you to play the guitar before he let you take it away and ask you if it was how you wanted it !!!  As the previous post suggests, play other guitars (good quality one like USA PRS or Gibson) and see if they "buzz" or not. You seem to be walking the narrow ledge to disaster.. Neck relief.0.010,0.012 etc etc...is a guideline, not an actual "set" figure.Neck bow/truss rods differ from guitar to guitar.You seem obsessed with having a low action? Maybe your guitar wont allow a buzz free lower action? Do you know any good players that could check your guitar out? or a local guitar teacher? ..good luck!

PS Are you're humbucker covers buzzing?? or a loose machine head? etc etc etc..Buzzing isn't always the strings/frets!

pekin

gibby said:

P I think you're missing the point(s).A GOOD luthier/tech would have asked you to play the guitar before he let you take it away and ask you if it was how you wanted it !!!  As the previous post suggests, play other guitars (good quality one like USA PRS or Gibson) and see if they "buzz" or not. You seem to be walking the narrow ledge to disaster.. Neck relief.0.010,0.012 etc etc...is a guideline, not an actual "set" figure.Neck bow/truss rods differ from guitar to guitar.You seem obsessed with having a low action? Maybe your guitar wont allow a buzz free lower action? Do you know any good players that could check your guitar out? or a local guitar teacher? ..good luck!

PS Are you're humbucker covers buzzing?? or a loose machine head? etc etc etc..Buzzing isn't always the strings/frets!

Thanks for your comment gibby.

As you all suggested I'll try to play different guitars to have a proper overview. I don't think I will be changing my guitar setup except safe and easy stuff like intonation after restring. I am actually obsessed with string buzzing more than low action (I think the current action setup is not very low anyway).
It might be the case that I cannot get less buzzing from this guitar with any other setup!
I have just bought a fret rocker to have a roughly idea of the fretwork done by factory and also a string action gauge to be able to tell about my current action height. It's just because I am curious and I love to learn, I am not planning to become a luthier anyway.

Regarding other sources of buzzing, I have checked carefully taking my ear to 2 cm from the neck and it is actually coming from the string/frets.

It is true that I have heard some buzzing coming from the humbucker covers which is a different buzzing sound, quieter and high-pitched. I always solve this sound by touching the humbucker covers. Do you know anyway to resolve this permanently?

Unfortunately the only guitar player (also friend) that lives nearby cannot come in to my house because has cat allergy (I have two cats!).

Thanks again for your advices!

gibby

Humbucker covers can be a potch and could mean taking the pickup off. Try rubber tube "springs"or stronger adjustment springs and ensure that the pickup covers are secure (may need the tabs soldering?)..lots of trial and error involved I've seen pickups secured around the edges and onto the pickup rings with masking tape to stop them buzzing. Depend how much the buzzing annoys you. Usually if you plug into an amp, you cant hear the buzzing...if you can't get it to a good repair/tech then spend a few hours on youtube..plenty good info there!

pekin

Hi!

Just wanted to update you with the latest findings.

I've recently re-stringed my guitar (D'Addario .010 - .046) and it sounds much better than before. I've also checked the frets using the fret rocker and it looks like it has a nice fretwork (I wasn't able to find any uneven fret) but I don't have enough experience to say it's 100% fine.

I have also measured the string action using a string action gauge:

Low E o 6th string: 2mm or slightly lower (about 5/64").
High E o 1st string: 1.50mm or slightly lower (a bit lower than 4/64").

After reading about different setups for the same/similar guitars from different people, I don't think my action is very low.

The softer I strum the lesser is the presence of buzzing when playing unplugged. I guess I can always play with the action to reach the named sweet spot where the buzzing doesn't bother me.

Do you consider my action setup as low action?

Thanks,
Jose

darthed1981

This may seem and probably is silly - but I assume you have thoroughly cleaned and treated the fretboard with lemon oil?

I got an Epi LP Custom Pro before Xmas, and had weird sound when by the upper frets, I cleaned it (without removing the strings) and obviously having spent a bit of time in a warehouse it was filthy, once I'd done this it was absolutely fine.