Are Boss re-releasing old pedals?

Octafish

Johnnyseven said:

@Octafish - you said 'the old vibe could be brought back', Boss has only ever made the VB2 and the Vibrato side of the CE1 so what Boss Univibe pedal were you referring to?

I didn't say that, that was Johnnyseven.

JezWynd

impmann said:

Octafish said:

Johnnyseven said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Octafish said:

I've long lost interest in Boss, their range is too boring, they seem have little new to offer and they're a bit pricey. Problem is there are better OD's, Fuzzes, Delays, Phasers, Octaves out there for similar or less money and they don't do pedals such as vibe or anything a bit wacky.

I also had enough of issues such as the DD3 being finicky with certain power supplies or the TR2 still making a hissy/swiching sound even when switched off due to not being true bypass, assume their other modulation pedals have similar issues?

Any digital delay and a lot of analog ones are fussy with power supply. You need to isolate them. Same with modulation pedals - boss ones actually usually play nice when daisy chained, although not always. 

I find the current range is a bit odd - I love the digital drive pedals, such as the da2, d1x and od1x. They're original, very low noise and dynamic. I love a couple of others but they're marmite - ds1 and Ds2 for instance. I also really like the bd2 and, to a lesser extent, the od3. 

But I do wonder why they won't rerun old classics. The od1, sd-2 (seriously they need to get on this one), ph1r, dd2 and the old vibe could all be brought back. 

The fz2 was an absolute beast apparently... 

The old vibe has already been brought back as the VB-2W.

That's a vibrato pedal, I was talking about vibe as in univibe style pedal. Also the Boss VB-2W is an insane £190 for a pedal with not that much variety in sounds. The Digitech Ventura Vibe offers similar sounds, plus Univibe and Rotary sounds for £130 in pedal that feels higher quality with Stereo In and Out. It's as though Boss has no eye on the competition.

I disagree there... I tried the Ventura and it doesn't do the Boss Vibrato very well at all. Thats the point for me, nothing sounds like a VB2 that is cheaper. Yes its expensive but if you want *that* sound - like I do - its pretty much the only option. At least you know the pedal is well made for that cash - unlike some "booteeek" stuff with soppy switches.

The Behringer copy of the VB-2, which I A/B'd with the original sounds exactly the same. Their copy of the DC-2 is reputed to be an exact copy too though I haven't compared those two myself.

Octafish

impmann said:

I disagree there... I tried the Ventura and it doesn't do the Boss Vibrato very well at all. Thats the point for me, nothing sounds like a VB2 that is cheaper. Yes its expensive but if you want *that* sound - like I do - its pretty much the only option. At least you know the pedal is well made for that cash - unlike some "booteeek" stuff with soppy switches.

Univibes? Really? Sorry but I'm not a fan - the 'throbbing' thing doesn't work for me. Its great for Hendrix and Trower inspired stuff but I'm not inclined to play like that. If I want a Vibrato sound, the Univibe isn't it...

As for Boss delays - each to their own but I prefer a Boss DSD2/3 to much of the fashionable stuff thats about at the moment. There was a reason we jettisoned our analogue delays back in the 1980s and plugging into some of these reminds me of this. A lot of these delay units are over complicated too - I don't use tap tempo, as I like repeats to clash with the beat and some of the controls on these things just are there for twiddling sake for me.

As for reissuing thing - yes, Dimension please, with the switches rather than the knobs. Slow Gear (or whatever the fuck it was called) would be good too.

Personal preference I suppose, I don't find vibrato effect a particularly interesting or usable myself.

Flashback 4x isn't a fashionable boutique pedal and ignoring Toneprint is very easy to use. It has analogue, tape, tube and other delay voicings and the classic TC 2290 digital delay voicing, which is actually quite similar to the DD3 sound. Tap tempo is very useful, particularly when jamming. Being able to sync up delay to track tempos can lead to very rhythmically interesting and musical results, no twiddling for the sake of it, but as I say I guess that's personal preference.

Johnnyseven

Octafish said:

Johnnyseven said:

@Octafish - you said 'the old vibe could be brought back', Boss has only ever made the VB2 and the Vibrato side of the CE1 so what Boss Univibe pedal were you referring to?

I didn't say that, that was Johnnyseven.

Looking back it was ThePrettyDamned that made the original comment, but you replying to my reply to him confused the matter.

Octafish

english_bob said:

Octafish said:

Yeah what is it with Boss these days, so boring and nothing new other than overpriced versions of their old pedals. No hate for them just a lot of 'meh'!

I don't get how anyone can look at the DD-500 and say "meh".

Half the boutique pedal industry is built on overpriced versions of Boss's old pedals (more than that if you consider the tubescreamer a direct descendant of the OD-1)

Fair enough, I've not heard of the DD-500 before, is it new? Very low key product if not and at over £300 out of my price range really. Don't think I'm some boutique obsessive though, very happy with my £30 Joyo TS clone

Octafish

Johnnyseven said:

Octafish said:

Johnnyseven said:

@Octafish - you said 'the old vibe could be brought back', Boss has only ever made the VB2 and the Vibrato side of the CE1 so what Boss Univibe pedal were you referring to?

I didn't say that, that was Johnnyseven.

Looking back it was ThePrettyDamned that made the original comment, but you replying to my reply to him confused the matter.

Yeah that's right, I got a bit confused there, you're Johnnyseven!  

impmann

JezWynd said:

impmann said:

Octafish said:

Johnnyseven said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Octafish said:

I've long lost interest in Boss, their range is too boring, they seem have little new to offer and they're a bit pricey. Problem is there are better OD's, Fuzzes, Delays, Phasers, Octaves out there for similar or less money and they don't do pedals such as vibe or anything a bit wacky.

I also had enough of issues such as the DD3 being finicky with certain power supplies or the TR2 still making a hissy/swiching sound even when switched off due to not being true bypass, assume their other modulation pedals have similar issues?

Any digital delay and a lot of analog ones are fussy with power supply. You need to isolate them. Same with modulation pedals - boss ones actually usually play nice when daisy chained, although not always. 

I find the current range is a bit odd - I love the digital drive pedals, such as the da2, d1x and od1x. They're original, very low noise and dynamic. I love a couple of others but they're marmite - ds1 and Ds2 for instance. I also really like the bd2 and, to a lesser extent, the od3. 

But I do wonder why they won't rerun old classics. The od1, sd-2 (seriously they need to get on this one), ph1r, dd2 and the old vibe could all be brought back. 

The fz2 was an absolute beast apparently... 

The old vibe has already been brought back as the VB-2W.

That's a vibrato pedal, I was talking about vibe as in univibe style pedal. Also the Boss VB-2W is an insane £190 for a pedal with not that much variety in sounds. The Digitech Ventura Vibe offers similar sounds, plus Univibe and Rotary sounds for £130 in pedal that feels higher quality with Stereo In and Out. It's as though Boss has no eye on the competition.

I disagree there... I tried the Ventura and it doesn't do the Boss Vibrato very well at all. Thats the point for me, nothing sounds like a VB2 that is cheaper. Yes its expensive but if you want *that* sound - like I do - its pretty much the only option. At least you know the pedal is well made for that cash - unlike some "booteeek" stuff with soppy switches.

The Behringer copy of the VB-2, which I A/B'd with the original sounds exactly the same. Their copy of the DC-2 is reputed to be an exact copy too though I haven't compared those two myself.

OK, I'll slightly rephrase...

nothing sounds like a VB2 that is cheaper and rugged.

I had the Beefringer. It sounded great, I agree, but the switch was awful on mine and it felt like it would break if I stood on it the wrong way. I couldn't give it away at £25 either!!

Octafish

impmann said:

JezWynd said:

The Behringer copy of the VB-2, which I A/B'd with the original sounds exactly the same. Their copy of the DC-2 is reputed to be an exact copy too though I haven't compared those two myself.

OK, I'll slightly rephrase...

nothing sounds like a VB2 that is cheaper and rugged.

I had the Beefringer. It sounded great, I agree, but the switch was awful on mine and it felt like it would break if I stood on it the wrong way. I couldn't give it away at £25 either!!

There's some good sounding Behringers, but yes the casing and switches are junk. Was recently given a Spectrum Enhancer which is a clone of the old Boss Spectrum SP1 pedal. Can be quite useful for upper mid boosting lead sounds, but I'm going to rehouse it and fit a true bypass switch as it feels like it's going to crumple everytime i step on it.

JezWynd

impmann said:

JezWynd said:

impmann said:

Octafish said:

Johnnyseven said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Octafish said:

I've long lost interest in Boss, their range is too boring, they seem have little new to offer and they're a bit pricey. Problem is there are better OD's, Fuzzes, Delays, Phasers, Octaves out there for similar or less money and they don't do pedals such as vibe or anything a bit wacky.

I also had enough of issues such as the DD3 being finicky with certain power supplies or the TR2 still making a hissy/swiching sound even when switched off due to not being true bypass, assume their other modulation pedals have similar issues?

Any digital delay and a lot of analog ones are fussy with power supply. You need to isolate them. Same with modulation pedals - boss ones actually usually play nice when daisy chained, although not always. 

I find the current range is a bit odd - I love the digital drive pedals, such as the da2, d1x and od1x. They're original, very low noise and dynamic. I love a couple of others but they're marmite - ds1 and Ds2 for instance. I also really like the bd2 and, to a lesser extent, the od3. 

But I do wonder why they won't rerun old classics. The od1, sd-2 (seriously they need to get on this one), ph1r, dd2 and the old vibe could all be brought back. 

The fz2 was an absolute beast apparently... 

The old vibe has already been brought back as the VB-2W.

That's a vibrato pedal, I was talking about vibe as in univibe style pedal. Also the Boss VB-2W is an insane £190 for a pedal with not that much variety in sounds. The Digitech Ventura Vibe offers similar sounds, plus Univibe and Rotary sounds for £130 in pedal that feels higher quality with Stereo In and Out. It's as though Boss has no eye on the competition.

I disagree there... I tried the Ventura and it doesn't do the Boss Vibrato very well at all. Thats the point for me, nothing sounds like a VB2 that is cheaper. Yes its expensive but if you want *that* sound - like I do - its pretty much the only option. At least you know the pedal is well made for that cash - unlike some "booteeek" stuff with soppy switches.

The Behringer copy of the VB-2, which I A/B'd with the original sounds exactly the same. Their copy of the DC-2 is reputed to be an exact copy too though I haven't compared those two myself.

OK, I'll slightly rephrase...

nothing sounds like a VB2 that is cheaper and rugged.

I had the Beefringer. It sounded great, I agree, but the switch was awful on mine and it felt like it would break if I stood on it the wrong way. I couldn't give it away at £25 either!!

iirc I paid 16.99 for mine from Amazon, so perhaps you were asking too much! Agreed, the case quality is not great but there's no denying that Behringer can nail the exact tones (their take on the FZ-2 is another one) very cheaply, which kind of gives the lie to a lot of the boutique nonsense.

Octafish

JezWynd said:

...Behringer can nail the exact tones (their take on the FZ-2 is another one) very cheaply, which kind of gives the lie to a lot of the boutique nonsense.

Joyo also burst that bubble as well and they come in rugged metal cases with tough switches.

ICBM

bbill335 said:

Bring back the fz2

There are a lot of the older '2' series pedals I would like to see again, but that must be at the top of a shortlist.

Although most of the originals aren't rare or very expensive second hand, so whether they'd think it was worthwhile I don't know. I wouldn't want to pay Waza Craft money for them I don't think.

Octafish said:

Joyo also burst that bubble as well and they come in rugged metal cases with tough switches.

Tough? They're the usual shit 3PDTs. One of the best things about Boss is that they use proper buffered switching - OK the buffering is perhaps not quite as well-implemented as it could be.

There have been weeks when I've replaced as many 3PDTs in various pedals than I have Boss switches in thirty years. The very last thing you need is a cheap clone without the proper switching.

The case design is crap too - just a flat metal box with the knobs sticking up where you can knock them. The Boss casing is as perfect as any pedal has ever been.

Octafish

ICBM said:

bbill335 said:

Bring back the fz2

There are a lot of the older '2' series pedals I would like to see again, but that must be at the top of a shortlist.

Although most of the originals aren't rare or very expensive second hand, so whether they'd think it was worthwhile I don't know. I wouldn't want to pay Waza Craft money for them I don't think.

Octafish said:

Joyo also burst that bubble as well and they come in rugged metal cases with tough switches.

Tough? They're the usual shit 3PDTs. One of the best things about Boss is that they use proper buffered switching - OK the buffering is perhaps not quite as well-implemented as it could be.

There have been weeks when I've replaced as many 3PDTs in various pedals than I have Boss switches in thirty years. The very last thing you need is a cheap clone without the proper switching.

The case design is crap too - just a flat metal box with the knobs sticking up where you can knock them. The Boss casing is as perfect as any pedal has ever been.

Can only speak as I find. Have had a Vintage Overdrive and few other Joyos for four+ years, gig them all the time, nothing's broken on any of them and never had an issue knocking the settings - is this really an issue for some? I wasn't comparing Joyo to Boss anyway, but to Behringer and what JezWynd referred to as boutique 'nonsense'.

joeyowen

I just checked, the 40th boss is £58

https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/DS14A/overdrive-pedals/boss-ds-1-40th-anniversary-limited-edition-distortion-pedal

ICBM

Octafish said:

Can only speak as I find. Have had a Vintage Overdrive and few other Joyos for four+ years, gig them all the time, nothing's broken on any of them and never had an issue knocking the settings - is this really an issue for some? I wasn't comparing Joyo to Boss anyway, but to Behringer and what JezWynd referred to as boutique 'nonsense'.

Broken 3PDT switches are probably the most common repair issue on any pedal that isn't a Boss/Ibanez/DOD etc. From a personal point of view I detest the click action and find them uncomfortable when playing in bare feet too. It's something that really pisses me off about modern pedals - even Digitech and Boss have started using metal switches now, although admittedly with a soft action.

I find I do often knock the settings on any flat-casing pedal, but maybe I'm just clumsy!

JezWynd

Octafish said:

ICBM said:

bbill335 said:

Bring back the fz2

There are a lot of the older '2' series pedals I would like to see again, but that must be at the top of a shortlist.

Although most of the originals aren't rare or very expensive second hand, so whether they'd think it was worthwhile I don't know. I wouldn't want to pay Waza Craft money for them I don't think.

Octafish said:

Joyo also burst that bubble as well and they come in rugged metal cases with tough switches.

Tough? They're the usual shit 3PDTs. One of the best things about Boss is that they use proper buffered switching - OK the buffering is perhaps not quite as well-implemented as it could be.

There have been weeks when I've replaced as many 3PDTs in various pedals than I have Boss switches in thirty years. The very last thing you need is a cheap clone without the proper switching.

The case design is crap too - just a flat metal box with the knobs sticking up where you can knock them. The Boss casing is as perfect as any pedal has ever been.

Can only speak as I find. Have had a Vintage Overdrive and few other Joyos for four+ years, gig them all the time, nothing's broken on any of them and never had an issue knocking the settings - is this really an issue for some? I wasn't comparing Joyo to Boss anyway, but to Behringer and what JezWynd referred to as boutique 'nonsense'.

The Vintage Overdrive is the only Joyo pedal I've tried. It turned up DOA so I've not bothered with any of the others. In contrast, I've had approx 50 Boss pedals over the years. Only one, a 30 year old DSD-2 was faulty. Some of the older ones occ. had sticky switches but nothing a squirt of contact cleaner didn't fix. It's a remarkable design, on a par with the telecaster; one of those things that's 'right' from the very beginning.

Teetonetal

Couldn't agree more. The boss switch remains the best by some distance. Soft switches are a massive improvement on 3dpt click ones though. Who thought they were a good idea?

Octafish

ICBM said:

It's something that really pisses me off about modern pedals - even Digitech and Boss have started using metal switches now, although admittedly with a soft action.

Is it to do with the rise in popularity of true bypass? Is it possible to wire true bypass with a Boss style microswitch?

The only pedal I've ever broken a switch on was my first pedal (a DOD Classic Tube), but I was a clumsy teenager with no mechanical sympathy then  

ThePrettyDamned

Octafish said:

ICBM said:

It's something that really pisses me off about modern pedals - even Digitech and Boss have started using metal switches now, although admittedly with a soft action.

Is it to do with the rise in popularity of true bypass? Is it possible to wire true bypass with a Boss style microswitch?

The only pedal I've ever broken a switch on was my first pedal (a DOD Classic Tube), but I was a clumsy teenager with no mechanical sympathy then  

Yes. 

True bypass is used because it's easy to do - everyone who makes pedals tries it first as the parts are easy to source and no knowledge is required. However, I've never heard a true bypass 3pdt that doesn't make a thunk through the amp when actuated, which is really annoying to me. 

There are better bypass implements in the boutique world - I think @ThorpyFX uses true bypass but sources expensive and very heavy duty switches - I've not tried anything of his, but his warthog (which sounds like it may be his take on a rat) is of great interest to me. @icbm has detailed an alternative wiring scheme with a 3pdt that increases reliability by giving redundancy to the bypass position (ie if the switch breaks the chances are it'll still pass signal through, so you'll get through a gig). @juansolo has built me a custom triple pedal that uses more reliable 2pdt switches and millennium bypass, effectively providing true bypass but more reliable - the super hard on style boost still pops when actuating, but the two fuzzes don't (I'm led to believe the super hard on just does that regardless). 

By true bypass in most cases is the easiest and cheapest solution, plus it's a good marketing gimmick. I prefer to have buffers in my pedals for quiet switching, even if they do raise my noise floor compared to plugging straight in. The minor signal loss I get is less than running all true bypass pedals and easily made up with the amp settings. 

juansolo

ThePrettyDamned said:

@juansolo has built me a custom triple pedal that uses more reliable 2pdt switches and millennium bypass, effectively providing true bypass but more reliable - the super hard on style boost still pops when actuating, but the two fuzzes don't (I'm led to believe the super hard on just does that regardless). 

They actually use optocouplers rather than millennium bypass.

The SHO is a very clever piece of kit in getting so much out of so few parts, but it can be done a lot better. Without the crackle (the knob essentially re-biases the fet which is the noise you're hearing, not a dead pot). Which is why when we decided to do our own fet booster, we used a few more (and it's not a copy of a SHO). It behaves impeccably now.

ThePrettyDamned

juansolo said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

@juansolo has built me a custom triple pedal that uses more reliable 2pdt switches and millennium bypass, effectively providing true bypass but more reliable - the super hard on style boost still pops when actuating, but the two fuzzes don't (I'm led to believe the super hard on just does that regardless). 

They actually use optocouplers rather than millennium bypass.

The SHO is a very clever piece of kit in getting so much out of so few parts, but it can be done a lot better. Without the crackle (the knob essentially re-biases the fet which is the noise you're hearing, not a dead pot). Which is why when we decided to do our own fet booster, we used a few more (and it's not a copy of a SHO). It behaves impeccably now.

Ooo is that the... Ahem... Well endowed boost? 

I might need to try it. Although the sho is always on when I use it so... I don't really have any issue.  

Apologies and thanks for the correction. 

Basically there are a lot of ways to skin this particular cat.