eBay 'feedback extortion'

bbill335

I got an 'informal notice' from eBay basically saying that they reckon I might have "threaten[ed] to use Feedback or detailed seller ratings in an attempt to force a seller into providing:
-- Goods or services that weren't included in the original item's description or purchase price
-- A refund 
-- A return" 

What had happened was something didn't arrive for WEEKS after the seller had lied about having dispatched the item earlier. It was for a birthday and arrived basically at the zero hour (basically when I said I'd have to request a refund if it didn't turn up) and it meant I had to pay extra postage to send it on to the recipient (I had seen them over xmas, the gift was ordered in time for me to leave it with them in time for their birthday in early Jan). 

The seller pleaded "please leave good feedback" to which I replied that, if they refunded my p&p costs, I would be satisfied that they had 'dealt with the problem' enough to leave them good feedback and then never think about it again. That isn't what I call 'extortion' and, relevant or otherwise, no refund ever surfaced and they got a fat red minus from me anyway. The money involved isn't enough for me to care any more.

My point is, I feel a bit like an innocent sea mammal caught in eBay's anti-revenue loss algorithm net. I know it's happened to people on here recently in terms of arranging off-eBay deals, it all seems a bit unjust. I'm actually having a harder time buying on eBay than selling lately, which is contrary to a lot of others' experience from what I read on gear forums.

starwarsnosebleed

Ebay are fuckwits. Simple as that.

Bridgehouse

starwarsnosebleed said:

Ebay are fuckwits. Simple as that.

Amen, Brother.

thermionic

I often buy old vinyl records on ebay and I always pay careful attention to how the quality of the record is described. I bought a single with a quite detailed description along the lines of "plays flawlessly, no pops or scratches". When it arrived it was extremely scratchy and track 1 was unplayable because the needle jumped on a scratch at the same point every time. If I knew how bad it was I wouldn't have bought it. I left negative feedback saying the description was totally inaccurate and misleading.

I got a pleading message from the seller straight away, a real sob story about he was an established business and he valued his high feedback rating etc, offering me a discount if I agreed to pull the negative feedback and re-submit a more favourable one. Track 2 was the song I was really interested in, so he agreed on the discount I suggested (I think it was about 30-40%). 

boogieman

thermionic said:

I often buy old vinyl records on ebay and I always pay careful attention to how the quality of the record is described. I bought a single with a quite detailed description along the lines of "plays flawlessly, no pops or scratches". When it arrived it was extremely scratchy and track 1 was unplayable because the needle jumped on a scratch at the same point every time. If I knew how bad it was I wouldn't have bought it. I left negative feedback saying the description was totally inaccurate and misleading.

I got a pleading message from the seller straight away, a real sob story about he was an established business and he valued his high feedback rating etc, offering me a discount if I agreed to pull the negative feedback and re-submit a more favourable one. Track 2 was the song I was really interested in, so he agreed on the discount I suggested (I think it was about 30-40%). 

Not sure I would've agreed to do that. He's obviously either not checked his stock properly or doesn't care that much and fobs people off with excuses and a discount. It was ok in your case, but I wonder how many other people he's done that to, just to keep his feedback up? 

SteveRobinson

I left a neutral feedback recently for a £5 tool that didn't work. Got a similar pleading email which I have ignored. 

benmurray85

You should've just left negative feedback and not entered into further discussions with the seller re. the refund. 

Im not saying eBay are 100% in the right, they've certainly fucked me over previously but I can't help but think you didn't really help yourself in this instance. 

If you were insistent on recouping your postage costs then you could have raised a case with eBay. Being the buyer you would ABSOLUTELY have been the winning party!!!

Bidley

Bloody eBay! Always, 100%, without fail, siding with the buyer!

Oh.

thermionic

boogieman said:

thermionic said:

I often buy old vinyl records on ebay and I always pay careful attention to how the quality of the record is described. I bought a single with a quite detailed description along the lines of "plays flawlessly, no pops or scratches". When it arrived it was extremely scratchy and track 1 was unplayable because the needle jumped on a scratch at the same point every time. If I knew how bad it was I wouldn't have bought it. I left negative feedback saying the description was totally inaccurate and misleading.

I got a pleading message from the seller straight away, a real sob story about he was an established business and he valued his high feedback rating etc, offering me a discount if I agreed to pull the negative feedback and re-submit a more favourable one. Track 2 was the song I was really interested in, so he agreed on the discount I suggested (I think it was about 30-40%). 

Not sure I would've agreed to do that. He's obviously either not checked his stock properly or doesn't care that much and fobs people off with excuses and a discount. It was ok in your case, but I wonder how many other people he's done that to, just to keep his feedback up? 

Yes, it did feel like extortion, but I gave in because I really wanted that rare record and the song I wanted was ok.

What I should have done was haggled for the discount... and left negative feedback anyway. 

DefaultM

I recently got my first ever neutral feedback because apparently I'd sold a shirt as being in very good condition but the buyer would have described it as good condition. 
Not sure what he meant because he didn't even contact me about it.

57Deluxe

I got licked off ebay three times (separaye accounts) for ridiculous weighting towards the buyer. BUT - I have even had problems with a  listing on REVERB that, when I challenged it, was told by them that it was down to an automatic sweep using certain key phrases in listings and thus indiscriminant. That does not constitute an apology or a safeguard to future trading. Seems in a bid to attract buyers, these regimes will bend over backwards to placate them at your expense as a seller. After all - you probably Buy more times than you Sell.

thermionic

I thought the Feedback Xtortion was a new Boss pedal from NAMM.

m_c

As a business seller on eBay, I've only ever had 3 negative feedbacks in over 2500 sales.

2 of those were as a result of items get lost in international post, and one was a buyer who claimed the bits I sold wore out far too soon, yet he failed to respond to my message asking for more details, and highlighting possible causes. He simply left negative feedback and I never heard from him again.

Buyers want two basic things. Honest listings, and items posted when you say they will. Get those two things right, and you'll rarely have any problems as a seller.
Business sellers get access to a fair bit of sales stats, so they know exactly how they're performing, and what they need to do to meet eBay's required standards. I've had the Top Rated status for the past 5 months, having lost it when eBay introduced their new late delivery* stats for a few months.

I've had far more problems as an infrequent buyer, than a seller.
Certainly as a buyer, if the seller can't deliver what they've promised, I'll either not leave feedback, or if they've taken the p***, I'll leave negative/neutral, but hammer them on the feedback metrics, as they have a bigger impact on seller ratings than just negative feedback.

*the late delivery stat only includes feedback where the buyer has marked the item as on time or late, so if the buyer doesn't answer the question, that sale gets excluded from the stats. For me, I had 6 late deliveries over 400+ sales, but because only 140 buyers answered the question, it put me above the 4% threshold for Top-Rated.

dogload

SteveRobinson said:

I left a neutral feedback recently for a £5 tool that didn't work. Got a similar pleading email which I have ignored. 

Yes, I've had grief off a seller for whom I left neutral feedback. In my case a pedal that didn't work as described and which the seller refused to accept didn't. I thought I was being quite fair as I could have demanded refund or left -ve feedback, but the seller didn't see it that way and sent me a few snotty messages. 

dern

dogload said:

SteveRobinson said:

I left a neutral feedback recently for a £5 tool that didn't work. Got a similar pleading email which I have ignored. 

Yes, I've had grief off a seller for whom I left neutral feedback. In my case a pedal that didn't work as described and which the seller refused to accept didn't. I thought I was being quite fair as I could have demanded refund or left -ve feedback, but the seller didn't see it that way and sent me a few snotty messages. 

Just had an email from a seller asking me to reconsider the negative feedback I left them. I responded with "Shane, the torch caught fire. What's not negative about that?"

Emp_Fab

Quite often I'll forget to leave feedback - or just not bother, and the seller often emails me to 'remind me' to leave positive feedback.  I hit delete and let it pass.  If they email me a second time (which they often do), then they get negative - or neutral if I'm in a good mood, with a comment stating why.

They never email me a third time.  Funny that.

Sambostar

For all the rules and regulations, disparities between buyer and seller rights, cons and corporate tax avoidance, gotta say buying stuff on Ebay is still by far more wholesome and ethical than buying stuff from Amazon or your average High Street Chain store.  OK, there is still the postage thing if it's on the cheap but hey, it's probably more ethical than Amazon.

I like to think my money goes straight into the pockets of the littler people and often discover small businesses directly from their Ebay Stores and as said am reluctant to give bad feedback unless it's obviously and deliberately a really bad service..

I can understand how feedback is important for small businesses and morally you should give it, if they step up as so many people judge them on it and it's their business, or fuck off and get something from Amazon or your High Street..