Speaker upgrade - are there other speakers that will just 'drop fit' into Celestion bolt spacings?

Voxman

I'm thinking of upgrading the 16 Ohm 12" speaker in my Marshall DSL401 (40w combo), but because I'm not gigging this amp at the moment I'm not looking to spend a lot of money and am probably looking second-hand for around the £50-70 mark.  In that price range I know I won't get a 65w Creamback, but I can pick-up a used Celestion Vintage 30 (100dB), or a Celestion G12T75 (97dB), or WGS Veteran (I've checked, & mounting data of WGS matches Celestion).  

I'd also like to consider other used speaker options but aside from cost, a key criteria for me is that the replacement has to drop in exactly to fit the Celestion bolt spacings.  I'm not interested in re-drilling these or trying to force fit something that might be 'close' but turns out isn't.  

I mainly play classic rock & blues on the 401, but it would be good if I could find something that not only would sound good, but has a higher sensitivity of around 99-100dB too, to boost volume and clean headroom a little.  

So guys,

1.  What are your thoughts on the V30, Veteran and G12T75 for a DSL401?
2. Any thoughts on what other makes of speaker will definitely just 'drop in' (eg I know Eminence won't) and 
   
3. If so, do you have any recommendations for a second hand (or even new, eg if on special offer) speaker that will fit the bill & might be in my 'used' price-range?  (I'm in no hurry, so prepared to wait).

Thanks in advance everyone! 

Richardj

I recently put a Celestion V Type into my Rivera Pubster (having already had a pair in my '68 Custom Twin and Bassbreaker 18/30) and I'm very pleased with the result.

hywelg

I think you might be wrong about Eminence not fitting.  I have Emi, Celestion,  EV, WGS in 12" all installed in cabs I've made. Cutouts and holes all done from a template made from a Celestion and I've never had a problem swapping speakers around. 

Dodge

hywelg said:

I think you might be wrong about Eminence not fitting.  I have Emi, Celestion,  EV, WGS in 12" all installed in cabs I've made. Cutouts and holes all done from a template made from a Celestion and I've never had a problem swapping speakers around. 

Ditto. 

Richardj

I first swapped out the Celestion Seventy/80 in the Rivera for an Eminence Cannabis Rex and it didn't fit anywhere as easily as the Celestion V Type. I agree that the holes are just differently spaced enough to be annoying.

guitarfishbay

I love Vintage 30s but generally in bigger cabs. It might be a bit shouty for you for bluesy stuff. Honestly I'd keep saving and buy a H75 creamback - it'll sound great in a 1x12 and have 100db efficiency 

simonk

Used Creambacks crop up around the £60-£70 mark pretty regularly. I'd hold out for one of those - excellent speaker.

Chalky

My amp came with a Celestion Vintage 30 and I put an Eminence Red Fang in it and it was just a straight swap. I've also made a cab and that has had different makes in it, including Eminence and Celestion.  Not noticed any difference in spacing or difficulty in swapping.

ICBM

They usually fit. There is some slight variation among the manufacturers, but if you don't have the mounting holes at the extreme ends of the tolerance range there is a lot of overlap. It's rare to find combinations that don't work.

As far as I know any Eminence will fit in a Marshall - Marshall have used Eminence as stock in many cheaper models at times. I've also put EVs in Marshall cabs before, the spacing is fine but you will need longer mounting bolts. Fanes can be tricky - although their modern ones seem to be closer to the standard spacing than the old ones. Never tried a WGS.

Voxman

Thanks guys - much appreciated.  Might be able to get hold of a WGS Veteran 30 (60w, 99.5dB) for a good price - these are a warmer version of a V30 with less of that mid range 'bark' that sometimes doesn't suit a 1x12.  Had very good write-ups, and WGS seems to be very well thought of on reviews & by folk on FB too, which is reassuring to know.

simonk - I'll certainly look out for a second-hand creamback but I can't recall seeing any come up.  If anyone knows of one going, please give me a shout! 

Eminence, I hear you - can fit without too much trouble but also can be a real problem - as ICBM says, depends on the exact fitting & tolerance of your bolts!  What worries me is that quite a few folk with Marshalls have reported problems and have had to reposition the bolts which is awkward/fiddly even for a pro let alone a novice and I don't want to take the chance. 

ICBM

Unless there's a very good reason not to - a valuable speaker which you're probably not going to be putting in permanently - I would always do it by enlarging the holes in the speaker (easy, with a file) rather than moving the mounting bolts/T-nuts, if possible.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Unless there's a very good reason not to - a valuable speaker which you're probably not going to be putting in permanently - I would always do it by enlarging the holes in the speaker (easy, with a file) rather than moving the mounting bolts/T-nuts, if possible.

That seems sensible & in a worse case scenario is exactly what I'd do. 

Voxman

Any thoughts guys on a speaker that would work well in the DSL401 - I'm probably not going Vintage 30 but am considering the WGS Veteran 30, and (if I can find one used) a 65w Creamback.  

Particularly from the Eminence range (& I accept I may have to file the speaker holes to fit) any thoughts/experience with a DSL401?  

ICBM

I think the H-type speakers sound better in them - the Classic Lead 80 is particularly good, although I've heard a G12K-100 that sounded OK. The G12H-75 Creamback might be but I haven't tried one yet.

I have heard of someone who put a Gold in one and thought it sounded great, but you can't afford that .

Never tried a non-Celestion speaker in one (or the 201). It's a Marshall after all .

guitarfishbay

@Moltisanti bought my H75 and I think put it in a Marshall, though I don't think it was a DSL, possibly an 800?

Voxman

I'm also looking at a WGS ET65 which is designed as a replacement for a Celestion G12-65.

It's all getting very confusing.     In particular, some speakers seem to better suit a 4x12 cab whereas it's hard to find out which speakers are the most ideal for a 1x12 combo - and why?  I've looked on the net but so far can't seem to find any guide on all this?!

ICBM - what's particular about 'H' type Celestion speakers and why do you feel these work well with DSL401's?  

ICBM

Voxman said:

ICBM - what's particular about 'H' type Celestion speakers and why do you feel these work well with DSL401's?  

Bigger bass response and a clearer tone which offsets the slightly middy/fuzzy tone of the amp. I know the V30 is extremely middy and fuzzy too, but it also seems to have enough extra bottom-end to sound better than whatever that 'custom' thing they come with is. Still not my first choice though.

Voxman

ICBM - What I'm trying to achieve is to get a bit more sparkle in the cleans, more emphasised harmonics and warmth in the Marshall crunch, tighten up the bottom end, and add a bit more volume/headroom overall.  For lead solos, it needs to punch through the mix and get rid of the 'fizz' in OD2.

Will an H-type speaker do all that?  I'm also a bit confused as to the term 'H' type - I think this means heavy magnet?  But the Clasic Lead 80 you suggested isn't described as an 'H'? 

Also, any thoughts on a G12T75 - I have one in my Valvestate 8080 & it sounds pretty good.

My brain hurts!   

ICBM

Voxman said:

ICBM - What I'm trying to achieve is to get a bit more sparkle in the cleans, more emphasised harmonics and warmth in the Marshall crunch, tighten up the bottom end, and add a bit more volume/headroom overall.  For lead solos, it needs to punch through the mix and get rid of the 'fizz' in OD2.

Will an H-type speaker do all that?  I'm also a bit confused as to the term 'H' type - I think this means heavy magnet?  But the Clasic Lead 80 you suggested isn't described as an 'H'? 

Also, any thoughts on a G12T75 - I have one in my Valvestate 8080 & it sounds pretty good.

My brain hurts!   

That sounds like a V30, to be honest .

H is Heavy magnet, yes - the G12H-30, V30, Classic Lead 80, G12H-75 Creamback and G12K-100 are all H-type. The V30 is unusual in that it's tighter, more middy/harmonic-sensitive and with a darker/smoother top-end than the others, because it has a very heavily-doped cone.

The Classic Lead is deeper and clearer than the V30 and will give a bigger, more "4x12" type sound but doesn't cut through as well and can also sound too bright and metallic at the top-end.

The G12T-75 wouldn't be a good choice - it has a loose, scooped tone with quite a lot of deep bottom-end (which is why it's good with a Valvestate, it opens out the too-tight bass response of the solid-state power section) but can be fizzy at the top end and isn't all that loud or cutting.

If the V30 isn't what you want because it's too dirty and 'shouty', I'd go for a Creamback - G12H-75 for bottom end and volume, or G12M-65 for warmth and tightness.

drwiddly

I'm a fan of the Classic Lead 80 too. I replaced the stock speaker in my Wharfedale TCT35 combo with a CL80 a couple of years ago and it transformed the sound. For big gigs I use two 2x12 cabs with a CL80 and a WGS Retro 30 in each. They sound huge and don't have that shouty midrange you get with V30's.

hotpickups

There's a new Gold Alnico going at a good price on eBay at the moment. I nearly bought it myself but went for a good priced cream alnico in the end