Speaker upgrade - are there other speakers that will just 'drop fit' into Celestion bolt spacings?

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

ICBM - What I'm trying to achieve is to get a bit more sparkle in the cleans, more emphasised harmonics and warmth in the Marshall crunch, tighten up the bottom end, and add a bit more volume/headroom overall.  For lead solos, it needs to punch through the mix and get rid of the 'fizz' in OD2.

Will an H-type speaker do all that?  I'm also a bit confused as to the term 'H' type - I think this means heavy magnet?  But the Clasic Lead 80 you suggested isn't described as an 'H'? 

Also, any thoughts on a G12T75 - I have one in my Valvestate 8080 & it sounds pretty good.

My brain hurts!   

That sounds like a V30, to be honest .

H is Heavy magnet, yes - the G12H-30, V30, Classic Lead 80, G12H-75 Creamback and G12K-100 are all H-type. The V30 is unusual in that it's tighter, more middy/harmonic-sensitive and with a darker/smoother top-end than the others, because it has a very heavily-doped cone.

The Classic Lead is deeper and clearer than the V30 and will give a bigger, more "4x12" type sound but doesn't cut through as well and can also sound too bright and metallic at the top-end.

The G12T-75 wouldn't be a good choice - it has a loose, scooped tone with quite a lot of deep bottom-end (which is why it's good with a Valvestate, it opens out the too-tight bass response of the solid-state power section) but can be fizzy at the top end and isn't all that loud or cutting.

If the V30 isn't what you want because it's too dirty and 'shouty', I'd go for a Creamback - G12H-75 for bottom end and volume, or G12M-65 for warmth and tightness.

Thanks ICBM but I gotta tell you my 8080 with the G12T75 is ideafeningly loud..louder than the 401. The WGS Veteran 30 might be a goodie as its supposed to be better than the V30 with a warmer midrange.  And for the dsl401 the V30 certainly seems very popular on the Marshall forum and the creamback 65 is well liked too. 

Voxman

hotpickups said:

There's a new Gold Alnico going at a good price on eBay at the moment. I nearly bought it myself but went for a good priced cream alnico in the end

Yup saw that, bids starting at £100 but has to be picked up from Swindon so not practical. 

ICBM

Voxman said:

Thanks ICBM but I gotta tell you my 8080 with the G12T75 is ideafeningly loud..louder than the 401.

Of course it is - it has double the power and the stock speaker in the 401 is probably slightly less efficient.

But that doesn't mean the 75 is a great choice for the 401... it will do pretty much the opposite of what you're describing you want. If you can be bothered to swap it you could try it though.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

Thanks ICBM but I gotta tell you my 8080 with the G12T75 is ideafeningly loud..louder than the 401.

Of course it is - it has double the power and the stock speaker in the 401 is probably slightly less efficient.

But that doesn't mean the 75 is a great choice for the 401... it will do pretty much the opposite of what you're describing you want. If you can be bothered to swap it you could try it though.

Yeah, of course I realise that.  I appreciate its probably not ideal for the 401 & I can't really be bothered to swap the speakers anyway.   

hotpickups

Voxman said:

hotpickups said:

There's a new Gold Alnico going at a good price on eBay at the moment. I nearly bought it myself but went for a good priced cream alnico in the end

Yup saw that, bids starting at £100 but has to be picked up from Swindon so not practical. 

@Voxman ;;No it was a buy it not an auction. Still there I think up for £140 plus postage?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262824374460 ;

Voxman

hotpickups said:

Voxman said:

hotpickups said:

There's a new Gold Alnico going at a good price on eBay at the moment. I nearly bought it myself but went for a good priced cream alnico in the end

Yup saw that, bids starting at £100 but has to be picked up from Swindon so not practical. 

@Voxman ;;No it was a buy it not an auction. Still there I think up for £140 plus postage?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262824374460 ;

Not worth it ..cheaper to buy a new creamback.

midlifecrisis

I replaced a celestion with an eminence red wizard in a cub 12r. I looked like it should fit but i had to wrestle with it. the spacings were very slightly out. i ended up mounting it 90 degrees clockwise, ie the label faced right, instead of top, not that it matters but i would next time i would stick to a celestion

nick79

I recently swapped out an Eminence Governor for a Celestion g12 75, the spacing was spot on for both. That was in a Hayden 4x12 cab. 
Incidentally, said Eminence Governor is surplus to requirements, i just haven't got round to listing it in the classified's yet.

hotpickups

Voxman said:

hotpickups said:

Voxman said:

hotpickups said:

There's a new Gold Alnico going at a good price on eBay at the moment. I nearly bought it myself but went for a good priced cream alnico in the end

Yup saw that, bids starting at £100 but has to be picked up from Swindon so not practical. 

@Voxman ;;;No it was a buy it not an auction. Still there I think up for £140 plus postage?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262824374460 ;

Not worth it ..cheaper to buy a new creamback.

Aren't they £200 new usually ? I thought that was a good price if you are wanting an alnico. Stilll expensive though agreed

Voxman

hotpickups " Aren't they £200 new usually ? I thought that was a good price if you are wanting an alnico. Stilll expensive though agreed  "

As per the OP! " I'm not looking to spend a lot of money and am probably looking second-hand for around the £50-70 mark. "
  

Voxman

Rather than just jumping the FX loop, I've plugged in and been experimenting with my 'mini' pedal board comprising (front to back) Behringer EQ700, BBE Boosta Grand, and BBE Sonic Stomp Maximiser in the FX loop of my DSL401.  

The difference is staggering.  For some reason I get a slight volume drop with the BBESSM engaged, but it adds a tonal dynamic that I can't get from just the EQ alone.  It's hard to explain, but it makes it more of a wider '3D' feel, that tightens up the whole amp and all of a sudden with the 2 dials on 7 I get that great bottom end chunk that's been missing.  Combined with the EQ the tones and definition are blisteringly good even with OD2 fully dimed - there is no fuzziness at all, just great Marshall crunch.  Adjusting the FX mix allows me to 'trim' this for a little variation if I need to, but so far sounds really good on Max.   Cranking the BBEBG gives me a great clean volume boost without adding distortion or changing the tone. 

I'm curious as to how another speaker will sound, and whether it will improve it still further - currently bidding on a WGS Veteran 30, so if I win it I'll keep y'all posted.  

Teetonetal

I really like the wgs vetern 30. It's just a little less obnoxious than a v30. Fits easily. 

Also I love the celestion v. Not as modern sounding as a v30 better for classic rock IMO. 

Motorhate

ICBM said:

I think the H-type speakers sound better in them - the Classic Lead 80 is particularly good, although I've heard a G12K-100 that sounded OK. The G12H-75 Creamback might be but I haven't tried one yet.

I put a Celetsion G12K-100 and a Classic Lead in my 5150 2x12 combo.  It's a really good combination IMO for high gain stuff. Massive bottom end, good mid-range and smooth high end. Perfect for me and it was a straight swap out with the stock Sheffield speakers that were installed. I swapped them out in about 10mins.

Voxman

Daft as it may seem, there's a lot of info and vids around to help choose a good blend of speakers in a 2x12 or 4x12, and often the sum of the blended parts gives better results  - but I actually think choosing a single speaker that has to stand alone eg for a 1x12 combo is a harder process.

Voxman

Got outbid on the Veteran 30 mainly as I was undecided, especially as my 401 is sounding great with an EQ & BBE Sonic Stomp Maximiser in the FX loop.

rico

Voxman said:

Got outbid on the Veteran 30 mainly as I was undecided, especially as my 401 is sounding great with an EQ & BBE Sonic Stomp Maximiser in the FX loop.

As of this afternoon I have a Classic Lead 80 - it sounds great (at low volume). Night and day compared to the standard speaker. 

Voxman

rico said:

Voxman said:

Got outbid on the Veteran 30 mainly as I was undecided, especially as my 401 is sounding great with an EQ & BBE Sonic Stomp Maximiser in the FX loop.

As of this afternoon I have a Classic Lead 80 - it sounds great (at low volume). Night and day compared to the standard speaker. 

Congrats and I know that's the one @ICBM favours.  Let me know once you've had a chance to crank it.  I'm interested if it gives a tight low end but retains warm mids with a sparkly but not ice-picky top end.  In particular how od2 sounds and if its well defined with no fizziness. 

Bridgehouse

I've got a 2x12 cab with 2 g12 75s in. They are 1978 vintage and have seen some serious action. I reckon they would prolly do the tone you are looking for and would be reasonably cheap.

After heavy use, the sharp clangy sound they are criticised for is totally absent. Lots of bottom, warm mids and clear top. 

The cab has a Jet City Custom plugged in at the moment and it is actually really sweet sounding..

Voxman

Yeah, I have a G12T75 in my Marshall Valvestate, but @ICBM warned me off for the 401 as it wouldnt do what I wanted. 

Bridgehouse

Voxman said:

Yeah, I have a G12T75 in my Marshall Valvestate, but @ICBM warned me off for the 401 as it wouldnt do what I wanted. 

These aren't G12T75's... These are G12 75's. The 70's vintage ones def. sound different..