Lower wattage amps with good cleans . It's been asked a 1,000 times

Creed_Clicks

A question that’s been asked a 1,000 times. Lower wattage amps with good cleans loud enough for a band situation. Maybe this just isn’t possible?

I play an Orange Dual Terror, and use a 1x12 cab currently. It’s a Harley Benton cab, with a Celestion. Not great, but does the job. 

It's not heavy metal I'm playing, so it's not as if I'm fighting for volume all the time. It gets loud from time to time though.

The Dual Terror has plenty of volume when I need it, but I’m kind of *meh* about it, and I never go near the 30watt setting, and never use the distortion, which, to be fair, is very good, if that’s what you want.

I had been thinking of a Blues Junior III / Pro Junior III / AC15 , one of those, and I’d get a cab to have on hand.

Weekend just gone, I played a gig with an Orange Tiny Terror 15w combo. It was near impossible to get a clean sound out of it. It just didn’t seem to have the headroom. Not sure if it’s the small speaker or it’s just not meant to do cleans. I just couldn't get it to project properly.

When I turned the gain down low enough, there was no real “poke” in the sound. It was weak.

I remember I had a Fender Blues Deluxe and a Peavey Classic 30 yrs ago, and both had a lot more body with their clean sounds. (obvious reasons for that)

To end a long rambling post. I guess I should maybe abandon my Blues Junior III / Pro Junior III / AC15 thoughts and go for something that’s at least 20 watts?

I’m aware of the Laney Lionheart 20, and some of the higher end Fender options etc. 

Chris_J

If you need to play clean and loud, perhaps a low wattage amp isn't the best choice?

Creed_Clicks

That is the logical answer! I did like the Blues Deluxe but almost found it wasted with the volume knob at 2...  

Cabicular

The cab is possibly your issue. I used a Dual Terror for years in a chillis tribute and never found it lacking in headroom or clarity. although always in the 30W setting and into a 2x12 or 4x12

Creed_Clicks

Oh the Dual Terror is perfect with headroom etc. I just find it a bit, I dunno, sterile or something. Maybe I should experiment with cabs

Beexter

A Mesa Express 5 25 +
Switchable from 5, 15 or 25w. I regularly play on 15w at rehearsal and it easily gets over the drummer on the clean channel . I play it through a 1x12 MJW cab with an Eminence Wizard in it and the volume knob never gets even halfway.
An efficient speaker can really help - the Wizard is rated at about 103db sensitivity and is ' kin loud.

earwighoney

Marshall MG 20. 

Creed_Clicks

MG 20?

hywelg

Dr Z Maz 18NR 

Creed_Clicks

I like single channel amps, but realise beggars can't be choosers. The Mesa looks great, but might be out of my price bracket for now.
I did have a solid state Orange Crush head which sounded decent, but was WAY too heavy to lug around...

zepp76

The Laney Lionheart L20H does great cleans and takes pedals like a champ. I have one I play through a 2x12 with v30's and it sounds proper good considering the used prices.

Creed_Clicks

Yeah, I've always thrown around the idea of one of these L20 amps. I might look at the used market.

noisepolluter

Creed_Clicks said:

That is the logical answer! I did like the Blues Deluxe but almost found it wasted with the volume knob at 2...  

65 deluxe reverb is a few pounds lighter and with the volume around 3-4 with singlecoils I've found it does loud enough cleans in a band, though the drummer and other guitarist took it fairly easy on the volume. By the time I ran out of clean we all agreed we were drowning out the singer and uncomfortably loud for modest sized pub gigs. 
A more efficient speaker might also help squeeze out a bit more volume/bass

ecc83

Chris_J said:

If you need to play clean and loud, perhaps a low wattage amp isn't the best choice?

Exactly, depends HOW loud and HOW clean. IMHO 30W into 100dB/W/mtr speakers (and 2 is better than one) is the minimum for most venues and drummers etc. That said, much depends upon amplifier design. Big output traffs and a meaty power supply is needed. You can get a jeeust clipping at 30W/1kHz amp but it might not sustain that power if you want a thick, ballsy sound. Voicing and pre amp design can also be a factor.

No accident that those amps known for clean but loud have a "60" somewhere in their sobriquet! (ICBM likes 'em big!)

Dave.

Creed_Clicks

I wouldn't play "big" gigs these days, or be on big stages, so it would be your average modest pub gig, but we'd still belt it out, and do play halls from time to time, or function rooms. 
I'd mic the amp almost always in the bigger venues.

EricTheWeary

For squeaky clean, loud and light this is probably more solid state territory. I've got the Laney Lionheart 20 1x12 and it isn't 100% clean up against a drummer, which is fine but if I was trying to be Nile Rodgers it wouldn't be the obvious choice. 
Some nice SS combos out there from Roland, Quilter, Peavey, DV Mark,etc. 

Voxman

The best cleans from a small amp will probably be from a solid-state rather than valve amp.  Roland Jazz Chorus amps are renowned for their cleans, and Roland now offer a smaller JC40 (2x10" stereo 40w) and even a JC22 (2 x 6.5"stereo 30w).  

If you need valve, then try a Laney VC30-210 - it's smaller and lighter than the 2x12 version, it's 2 channel and it has glorious bell like chimey cleans with lots of headroom - and its loud!  You can pick up a used one for around £250 (the ones with the 2 x 10 Jensen C10Q16 speakers are excellent). 

I have a Laney Cub12R (15w) that I've upgraded with a JJ re-tube and a Celestion Vintage 30 (100dB) - and although this is only 15w single channel, it's darned loud (probably the equivalent of a 25-30w amp with a 97dB speaker) and has a lovely bell-like clean up to a pretty respectable volume before moving into crunch territory.  I've gigged with it, using the amp for cleans and pedals/MFX for distortions etc and I've had plenty of volume & headroom.     

Of course, clean also depends on your guitar - as you know, humbuckers will break-up a lot quicker than single coils with any amp. 

Creed_Clicks

Voxman said:

The best cleans from a small amp will probably be from a solid-state rather than valve amp.  Roland Jazz Chorus amps are renowned for their cleans, and Roland now offer a smaller JC40 (2x10" stereo 40w) and even a JC22 (2 x 6.5"stereo 30w).  

If you need valve, then try a Laney VC30-210 - it's smaller and lighter than the 2x12 version, it's 2 channel and it has glorious bell like chimey cleans with lots of headroom - and its loud!  You can pick up a used one for around £250 (the ones with the 2 x 10 Jensen C10Q16 speakers are excellent). 

I have a Laney Cub12R (15w) that I've upgraded with a JJ re-tube and a Celestion Vintage 30 (100dB) - and although this is only 15w single channel, it's darned loud (probably the equivalent of a 25-30w amp with a 97dB speaker) and has a lovely bell-like clean up to a pretty respectable volume before moving into crunch territory.  I've gigged with it, using the amp for cleans and pedals/MFX for distortions etc and I've had plenty of volume & headroom.     

Of course, clean also depends on your guitar - as you know, humbuckers will break-up a lot quicker than single coils with any amp. 

Interesting. I had looked at Laneys too. I am using a Gibson midtown mainly. I don't need squeaky clean, but found the Orange TT 15 was getting into distorted territory too early for me.

Hmmm, The Laney cubs look interesting.

menamestom

My Princeton Reverb is loud enough and has great cleans, but needed a speaker and transformer upgrade to get there.  But even with just the speaker it held up better than most 15w EL84 combos I've used (Laney VC15, Blues Junior etc).

Creed_Clicks

menamestom said:

My Princeton Reverb is loud enough and has great cleans, but needed a speaker and transformer upgrade to get there.  But even with just the speaker it held up better than most 15w EL84 combos I've used (Laney VC15, Blues Junior etc).

Yeah, I hear good things about these amps. So much choice!

Voxman

Creed_Clicks said:

Voxman said:

The best cleans from a small amp will probably be from a solid-state rather than valve amp.  Roland Jazz Chorus amps are renowned for their cleans, and Roland now offer a smaller JC40 (2x10" stereo 40w) and even a JC22 (2 x 6.5"stereo 30w).  

If you need valve, then try a Laney VC30-210 - it's smaller and lighter than the 2x12 version, it's 2 channel and it has glorious bell like chimey cleans with lots of headroom - and its loud!  You can pick up a used one for around £250 (the ones with the 2 x 10 Jensen C10Q16 speakers are excellent). 

I have a Laney Cub12R (15w) that I've upgraded with a JJ re-tube and a Celestion Vintage 30 (100dB) - and although this is only 15w single channel, it's darned loud (probably the equivalent of a 25-30w amp with a 97dB speaker) and has a lovely bell-like clean up to a pretty respectable volume before moving into crunch territory.  I've gigged with it, using the amp for cleans and pedals/MFX for distortions etc and I've had plenty of volume & headroom.     

Of course, clean also depends on your guitar - as you know, humbuckers will break-up a lot quicker than single coils with any amp. 

Interesting. I had looked at Laneys too. I am using a Gibson midtown mainly. I don't need squeaky clean, but found the Orange TT 15 was getting into distorted territory too early for me.

Hmmm, The Laney cubs look interesting.

I did a little demo of my Cub 12 a while back.  I think I gave some settings too.  This one is with my Les Paul Custom and cleans are from 4:45



This one was with a Strat, clans at the beginning: