Do guitarists still view buying a solid state amp as something best avoided ?

clarkefan

Telejester said:

darthed1981 said:

Telejester said:

fftc said:

For me one of the all time killer guitar tone monsters was BB King. What did he use?

Bear in mind his tone wouldnt have sounded as good in a bedroom with neighbours on the other side .

"Woke up this morning, neighbours banging on my door, said woke up this morning, won't stand my playing anymore..."
He shook his fist, said my playing was a farce
Growled and said he'd shove the amp up my arse
etc...

Bursting out laughing whilst quietly reading in the corner in the pub is not acceptable, but fuck me that was funny

bingefeller

ThePrettyDamned said:

I think the humble peavey bandit also has some physics going on in the power section. 

The dirt was a bit 80s (although if you engaged the thrash switch and kept the gain low you could get a cool imitation driven fender tone) but the cleans never sounded anything but brilliant to my ears, at any volume. 

I think Peavey make some of the best SS amps around, especially their older models.  

ellwood

I'm on my third Tech21 (because I was an idiot and sold the others). Trademark 60, and I love it. Will not be parting with this one....

Reverend

I've seen plenty of stoner/doom guitarists spending £2k on an valve amp and £200 on a boutique fuzz pedal 

I then saw a band  where he spent £70 on an old H/H amp. Sounded the same. 

earwighoney

My next amp purchase will be SS. 

Cost of replacing valves coupled with weight are things I'd like to avoid.  

At one point down the line I'd consider getting the Quilter Microblock 45 with a lightweight pine cab with a 12" speaker.  A small footprint set up at this moment in time seems very enticing. 

Sessionman

I think it fair to say, that many players who openly (and sometimes violently) don't like SS amps should really give one of these 'new school - old school sounding' amps a try!  Until they do, they'll never understand the real beauty of a well designed SS amp!  Not trying means (frankly) their enduring ignorance!

We also know that there are those who will not give SS any credit... ever... no matter how good they sound!  They just WON'T admit it! 

One guy came up to me at one of my gigs and said "Man that sound you're getting is just what I've always been looking for!  What valves are in your amp?"  Me:  "None, it's solid state."  Player: "What... it's a transistor amp?"  Me: "Yep!"  Player: looked at me strangely with a pause, then replied "I knew there was something wrong!" LMHO!  That's not an un-typical response showing his outright prejudice!

To be honest, I think the hate for SS is down to the years of 'Big Name' makers churning out iffy products due to a severe lack of really good designers in our industry.  And the use of the cheapest possible components in strategically important places.

Because of that, the culture is firmly 'It must be valve' and taking no prisoners!  Transistors can't possibly be any good!  That's a huge shame TBH, because SS has so much to offer.

I am happy to stand a BluesBaby next to a Blues Junior at any venue anywhere and let customers compare them.  I do this at guitar shows and have had four amp designers from Orange try them, including the guy who designed the Crush range... and they were floored by BluesBaby. 

The Crush designer had no idea how I had achieved such a high standard.  He knew nothing about the design techniques I was using at all!  And this is the problem we have... insufficient knowledge in the industry regarding SS design and the desire for the cheapest possible product in the shop when it comes to SS amps.

This is NOT the case with SESSION latest amp designs.  We use quality parts as would be used in most valve amps.

Sessionman

the_twin said:

Sessionman said:

the_twin said:

Sessionman said:

the_twin said:

I've ordered a Session BluesBaby to slot in where my Blues Junior used to live before it caught fire. Hopefully this will be a good move.

And how did it work out?  Quite a few have been buying them for the very same reason!

It arrived. I plugged it all in and there was a loud buzzing. After a bit of to and fro of emails back it went. It arrived back in a rather soggy box, but luckily it survived and all was now well.  Now generally pleased with how it is sounding. The tonal options are certainly far wider than a Blues Junior.

Oh dear... it was not despatched with a buzzing!  Don't think there would be much point in doing that deliberately.  Likewise, the soggy box was NOT soggy when it left the workshop!  That would have been caused by the carriers.  But to be fair, you probably thought that too anyway! 

Reading between the lines, it seems you don't really want to give it too much credit?  Bet you secretly love it! 

Yes, the vagaries of parcel delivery companies. To be fair the chap that delivered it did draw my attention to the damp box it was in.

If it keeps on working, I will be a happy man. The Blues Junior was in regular need of replacement valves or repairs to fried components. I'm still fiddling with the various permutations of switches and tone controls on the amp and drive pedal settings. 

"If it keeps on working..."  like you're expecting it to go wrong any moment?  If you're really honest... the Blues Junior is tonally no match for the BB!  Structurally no match either! 

On forums, do I detect an embarrassment to liking and openly expressing it about something you're 'culturally' not supposed to?  Our American customers are, as a rule, are much more enthusiastic and positive about new technology.  The Brits?  Well, always more happy to put stuff down.  Don't want to be first to like things.  Unloving of change.  Frightened of saying their (Alpha male forum ruler) mates could be wrong.

I say... lets embrace change and benefit from NOT spending hundreds of pounds every now and then on keeping something inferior going!  I mean... that money wasted on fixing 'toob' amps could mean another new guitar a couple of years down the road!  I know what I'd rather spend my money on!  A well designed SS amp and more guitars down the line!

Sessionman

ellwood said:

I'm on my third Tech21 (because I was an idiot and sold the others). Trademark 60, and I love it. Will not be parting with this one....

You know your own mind... good on ya!

Reverend said:

I've seen plenty of stoner/doom guitarists spending £2k on an valve amp and £200 on a boutique fuzz pedal 

I then saw a band  where he spent £70 on an old H/H amp. Sounded the same. 

HH amps were the first to have 'constant current' speaker drive... it was just their pre-amps and appearance that held them back, sadly.  They did sound rather good though... and still do!

Sessionman

earwighoney said:

My next amp purchase will be SS. 

Cost of replacing valves coupled with weight are things I'd like to avoid.  

At one point down the line I'd consider getting the Quilter Microblock 45 with a lightweight pine cab with a 12" speaker.  A small footprint set up at this moment in time seems very enticing. 

Think BluesBaby:45 with a NEO Creamback as well... only 10.6kg and 'classic' looks!

ThePrettyDamned

Sessionman said:

I think it fair to say, that many players who openly (and sometimes violently) don't like SS amps should really give one of these 'new school - old school sounding' amps a try!  Until they do, they'll never understand the real beauty of a well designed SS amp!  Not trying means (frankly) their enduring ignorance!

We also know that there are those who will not give SS any credit... ever... no matter how good they sound!  They just WON'T admit it! 

One guy came up to me at one of my gigs and said "Man that sound you're getting is just what I've always been looking for!  What valves are in your amp?"  Me:  "None, it's solid state."  Player: "What... it's a transistor amp?"  Me: "Yep!"  Player: looked at me strangely with a pause, then replied "I knew there was something wrong!" LMHO!  That's not an un-typical response showing his outright prejudice!

To be honest, I think the hate for SS is down to the years of 'Big Name' makers churning out iffy products due to a severe lack of really good designers in our industry.  And the use of the cheapest possible components in strategically important places.

Because of that, the culture is firmly 'It must be valve' and taking no prisoners!  Transistors can't possibly be any good!  That's a huge shame TBH, because SS has so much to offer.

I am happy to stand a BluesBaby next to a Blues Junior at any venue anywhere and let customers compare them.  I do this at guitar shows and have had four amp designers from Orange try them, including the guy who designed the Crush range... and they were floored by BluesBaby. 

The Crush designer had no idea how I had achieved such a high standard.  He knew nothing about the design techniques I was using at all!  And this is the problem we have... insufficient knowledge in the industry regarding SS design and the desire for the cheapest possible product in the shop when it comes to SS amps.

This is NOT the case with SESSION latest amp designs.  We use quality parts as would be used in most valve amps.

Stand any amp next to a Blues junior and it'll sound good  

Probably one of my least favourite amps if all time. I'm pretty easy to please with amps too... 

I like solid state amps though. Peavey bandit is one I've owned and loved (sadly moved on), but I've heard a Marshall mosfet 100 and that was excellent, jcm tones through and through. 

Telejester

ThePrettyDamned said:

Sessionman said:

I think it fair to say, that many players who openly (and sometimes violently) don't like SS amps should really give one of these 'new school - old school sounding' amps a try!  Until they do, they'll never understand the real beauty of a well designed SS amp!  Not trying means (frankly) their enduring ignorance!

We also know that there are those who will not give SS any credit... ever... no matter how good they sound!  They just WON'T admit it! 

One guy came up to me at one of my gigs and said "Man that sound you're getting is just what I've always been looking for!  What valves are in your amp?"  Me:  "None, it's solid state."  Player: "What... it's a transistor amp?"  Me: "Yep!"  Player: looked at me strangely with a pause, then replied "I knew there was something wrong!" LMHO!  That's not an un-typical response showing his outright prejudice!

To be honest, I think the hate for SS is down to the years of 'Big Name' makers churning out iffy products due to a severe lack of really good designers in our industry.  And the use of the cheapest possible components in strategically important places.

Because of that, the culture is firmly 'It must be valve' and taking no prisoners!  Transistors can't possibly be any good!  That's a huge shame TBH, because SS has so much to offer.

I am happy to stand a BluesBaby next to a Blues Junior at any venue anywhere and let customers compare them.  I do this at guitar shows and have had four amp designers from Orange try them, including the guy who designed the Crush range... and they were floored by BluesBaby. 

The Crush designer had no idea how I had achieved such a high standard.  He knew nothing about the design techniques I was using at all!  And this is the problem we have... insufficient knowledge in the industry regarding SS design and the desire for the cheapest possible product in the shop when it comes to SS amps.

This is NOT the case with SESSION latest amp designs.  We use quality parts as would be used in most valve amps.

Stand any amp next to a Blues junior and it'll sound good  

Probably one of my least favourite amps if all time. I'm pretty easy to please with amps too... 

I like solid state amps though. Peavey bandit is one I've owned and loved (sadly moved on), but I've heard a Marshall mosfet 100 and that was excellent, jcm tones through and through. 

Agreed, imho the blues jr is one of the worst amps ive played through

Sessionman

Telejester said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Sessionman said:

I think it fair to say, that many players who openly (and sometimes violently) don't like SS amps should really give one of these 'new school - old school sounding' amps a try!  Until they do, they'll never understand the real beauty of a well designed SS amp!  Not trying means (frankly) their enduring ignorance!

We also know that there are those who will not give SS any credit... ever... no matter how good they sound!  They just WON'T admit it! 

One guy came up to me at one of my gigs and said "Man that sound you're getting is just what I've always been looking for!  What valves are in your amp?"  Me:  "None, it's solid state."  Player: "What... it's a transistor amp?"  Me: "Yep!"  Player: looked at me strangely with a pause, then replied "I knew there was something wrong!" LMHO!  That's not an un-typical response showing his outright prejudice!

To be honest, I think the hate for SS is down to the years of 'Big Name' makers churning out iffy products due to a severe lack of really good designers in our industry.  And the use of the cheapest possible components in strategically important places.

Because of that, the culture is firmly 'It must be valve' and taking no prisoners!  Transistors can't possibly be any good!  That's a huge shame TBH, because SS has so much to offer.

I am happy to stand a BluesBaby next to a Blues Junior at any venue anywhere and let customers compare them.  I do this at guitar shows and have had four amp designers from Orange try them, including the guy who designed the Crush range... and they were floored by BluesBaby. 

The Crush designer had no idea how I had achieved such a high standard.  He knew nothing about the design techniques I was using at all!  And this is the problem we have... insufficient knowledge in the industry regarding SS design and the desire for the cheapest possible product in the shop when it comes to SS amps.

This is NOT the case with SESSION latest amp designs.  We use quality parts as would be used in most valve amps.

Stand any amp next to a Blues junior and it'll sound good  

Probably one of my least favourite amps if all time. I'm pretty easy to please with amps too... 

I like solid state amps though. Peavey bandit is one I've owned and loved (sadly moved on), but I've heard a Marshall mosfet 100 and that was excellent, jcm tones through and through. 

Agreed, imho the blues jr is one of the worst amps ive played through

The Blues Junior is, whatever anyone thinks, a hugely popular amp.  It's not my place to discredit it or love it... my opinions are just that and anyone's views are subjective.

However, it is a valve amp, in a small cabinet and is naturally going to sound boxy to some extent.  As would any Marshall, Bognor, Mesa, or any other played through the same cabinet and speaker.

Hartley Peavey is NOT a valve purist either.  In fact, he and I agree almost 100% about the value of SS guitar amps and their years of poor design and quality standards.  The Peavey Bandit has 'constant current' speaker drive like valve amps do... hence why it sounds so good to your ears.

The Marshall Mosfet 100 does not have 'constant current' speaker drive, so this is one of the old generation SS 'must avoid' amps that will sound cold and flat.  I am, frankly, very surprised you actually do like it!  But it is perfectly possible to retro-fit it, as we do to Sessionettes, and that will make it sound truly 'proper.'

Constant current drive does make a huge difference to bass warmth and chime.

ICBM

Sessionman said:

However, it is a valve amp, in a small cabinet and is naturally going to sound boxy to some extent.  As would any Marshall, Bognor, Mesa, or any other played through the same cabinet and speaker.

Although oddly, the Pro Junior - the Blues Junior's slightly smaller and less complex brother - sounds really very good, and not boxy at all. There's just something wrong with the Blues Jr…

Sessionman said:

Hartley Peavey is NOT a valve purist either.  In fact, he and I agree almost 100% about the value of SS guitar amps and their years of poor design and quality standards.  The Peavey Bandit has 'constant current' speaker drive like valve amps do... hence why it sounds so good to your ears.

I remember reading an article many years ago by Hartley Peavey regarding valve amps - at the time, the only valve amps Peavey made were the hybrids with valve power amps and solid-state preamps. He was very against 'cascaded gain' valve preamps like the Mesa/Boogie - he described the problems of microphonics and noise in a cascaded preamp very memorably as "a mouse fart at the input jack becomes a hurricane at the speaker" . He only belatedly seems to have come round to the idea of valve preamps.

In fact, those old solid-state-preamp/valve-power-amp Peaveys are still great-sounding, and very undervalued today.

Sessionman said:

The Marshall Mosfet 100 does not have 'constant current' speaker drive, so this is one of the old generation SS 'must avoid' amps that will sound cold and flat.  I am, frankly, very surprised you actually do like it!  But it is perfectly possible to retro-fit it, as we do to Sessionettes, and that will make it sound truly 'proper.'

Constant current drive does make a huge difference to bass warmth and chime.

I quite like those too, but I accept they don't have the deep, chiming clean tone of something like a Fender valve amp or even a Peavey. That said, when I recently owned a Marshall Lead 75 (same basic circuit as the 100) and my Peavey Special, I sold the Marshall… the Peavey just sounded much better.

mattacjones

I'd just say I'm lucky enough to have a Tone King Imperial 2 and a Roland Blues Cube artist. The Roland is just brilliant. I think the TK has a definite edge to it, but it's 2.5 to 3 times the price. Plus, if you use it at home (Roland), turn it on and off as often as you like, built in attenuator which is bang on as well 0.5 to 40w. I think it's REALLY impressive.

Sassafras

Never had any problems with the Tech 21 Trademarks, I like the whole range.
The Bandit is also a great amp.

the_twin

Sessionman said:

the_twin said:

Sessionman said:

the_twin said:

Sessionman said:

the_twin said:

I've ordered a Session BluesBaby to slot in where my Blues Junior used to live before it caught fire. Hopefully this will be a good move.

And how did it work out?  Quite a few have been buying them for the very same reason!

It arrived. I plugged it all in and there was a loud buzzing. After a bit of to and fro of emails back it went. It arrived back in a rather soggy box, but luckily it survived and all was now well.  Now generally pleased with how it is sounding. The tonal options are certainly far wider than a Blues Junior.

Oh dear... it was not despatched with a buzzing!  Don't think there would be much point in doing that deliberately.  Likewise, the soggy box was NOT soggy when it left the workshop!  That would have been caused by the carriers.  But to be fair, you probably thought that too anyway! 

Reading between the lines, it seems you don't really want to give it too much credit?  Bet you secretly love it! 

Yes, the vagaries of parcel delivery companies. To be fair the chap that delivered it did draw my attention to the damp box it was in.

If it keeps on working, I will be a happy man. The Blues Junior was in regular need of replacement valves or repairs to fried components. I'm still fiddling with the various permutations of switches and tone controls on the amp and drive pedal settings. 

"If it keeps on working..."  like you're expecting it to go wrong any moment?  If you're really honest... the Blues Junior is tonally no match for the BB!  Structurally no match either! 

On forums, do I detect an embarrassment to liking and openly expressing it about something you're 'culturally' not supposed to?  Our American customers are, as a rule, are much more enthusiastic and positive about new technology.  The Brits?  Well, always more happy to put stuff down.  Don't want to be first to like things.  Unloving of change.  Frightened of saying their (Alpha male forum ruler) mates could be wrong.

I say... lets embrace change and benefit from NOT spending hundreds of pounds every now and then on keeping something inferior going!  I mean... that money wasted on fixing 'toob' amps could mean another new guitar a couple of years down the road!  I know what I'd rather spend my money on!  A well designed SS amp and more guitars down the line!

I'm fully expecting it to last for 30 years, like the transistor hifi amplifier I am happily using. And if I was averse to different technology I could have gone and got the BJr repaired again.

Sessionman

ICBM said:

Sessionman said:

However, it is a valve amp, in a small cabinet and is naturally going to sound boxy to some extent.  As would any Marshall, Bognor, Mesa, or any other played through the same cabinet and speaker.

Although oddly, the Pro Junior - the Blues Junior's slightly smaller and less complex brother - sounds really very good, and not boxy at all. There's just something wrong with the Blues Jr…

Sessionman said:

Hartley Peavey is NOT a valve purist either.  In fact, he and I agree almost 100% about the value of SS guitar amps and their years of poor design and quality standards.  The Peavey Bandit has 'constant current' speaker drive like valve amps do... hence why it sounds so good to your ears.

I remember reading an article many years ago by Hartley Peavey regarding valve amps - at the time, the only valve amps Peavey made were the hybrids with valve power amps and solid-state preamps. He was very against 'cascaded gain' valve preamps like the Mesa/Boogie - he described the problems of microphonics and noise in a cascaded preamp very memorably as "a mouse fart at the input jack becomes a hurricane at the speaker" . He only belatedly seems to have come round to the idea of valve preamps.

In fact, those old solid-state-preamp/valve-power-amp Peaveys are still great-sounding, and very undervalued today.

Sessionman said:

The Marshall Mosfet 100 does not have 'constant current' speaker drive, so this is one of the old generation SS 'must avoid' amps that will sound cold and flat.  I am, frankly, very surprised you actually do like it!  But it is perfectly possible to retro-fit it, as we do to Sessionettes, and that will make it sound truly 'proper.'

Constant current drive does make a huge difference to bass warmth and chime.

I quite like those too, but I accept they don't have the deep, chiming clean tone of something like a Fender valve amp or even a Peavey. That said, when I recently owned a Marshall Lead 75 (same basic circuit as the 100) and my Peavey Special, I sold the Marshall… the Peavey just sounded much better.

The Pro Jnr does not have a three band 'bridged T' EQ network (or tonestack to guitarists), it only has a simple top-cut tone control.  This very much boosts the midrange band around 200-500Hz. 

The typical Fender two or three band Bridged T EQ cannot ever be set to 'flat'... there simply is no such setting!  Same for all the Fender, Marshall, et al makes (SESSION too) that employ it!  So they will all sound of that mid 'suck-out' that they do, even with the MID set to full-on.

This is why the famous early Shadows tone is so distinctive... it was created by an amp that only had a similar tone control.  You CANNOT get that tone via the later design AC30TB... only via the Normal and Tremolo Channels.  When the Shads switched to Mesa amps with 3 band (Fender) EQs... they lost that magic tone!

The Peavey solid state preamp and valve power amp hybrids were created because they didn't know about constant current (CC) speaker drive back then.  Had they of known, they would have simply installed the necessary feedback circuitry into solid state power amps and got exactly the same tone... for far less money and no power valve hassles.  Job done!

The Lead 75 was Marshall's answer to the Sessionette:75!  Neither had CC.  It had all the same features, placed in less obvious locations.  Unbeknown to Marshall, a friend of mine was working with them on the PA & bass amp design side.  So, I got feedback on what was happening there.  Jim had a Sessionette in his office apparently!

Another reason some of the early channel switching amps did not please players, is due to the simple fact that their EQs were placed PRE distortion.  Remember, POST distortion EQ placement had not been thought of yet, back then. 

Compared to a distortion pedal in front of the amp (POST distortion EQ), which players were more used to the tone of, they sounded rather 'messed-up' especially if the amp is set to deep distortion - Sessionette too.  The same problem that causes dislike for the distortion channels of the Fender Blues Deluxe and Hotrod Deluxe now.  Both those Fenders still have the EQ placed PRE distortion!

For outright rock playing styles, you need the EQ to be placed POST distortion... which most are these days.  Funnily, the BJr is the only one of that series that has its EQ POST distortion... so in theory, most suitable for rock styles... in principal!  BluesBaby has its EQ POST distortion too.  This is so important to the basic character of any amp!

My gigging Sessionette 75 has a CC in/out switch on the back... it really is so noticeable when the CC feedback is turned off!

So, there are a lot more influences on why amps sound the way they do other than being simply valve or solid state!  There are many considerations you just would not think of unless you were a professional amp designer!  Psychological aspects too... something Leo Fender was very good at!

Sessionman

the_twin said:

I'm fully expecting it to last for 30 years, like the transistor hifi amplifier I am happily using. And if I was averse to different technology I could have gone and got the BJr repaired again.

Yes, I guess you would have.  I certainly hope it gives you far more than thirty years of service... but I won't be around then to see it, sadly! 

ICBM

Sessionman said:

The Lead 75 was Marshall's answer to the Sessionette:75!  Neither had CC.  It had all the same features, placed in less obvious locations.

Yes, definitely . They saw the success of the Sessionette and tried to nick it! Much as they did with the 5F6-A Bassman and the Watkins Dominator twenty years earlier. I have to say that personally I prefered the Marshall, but it was nowhere near as popular as the Sessionette. It does have one big improvement - a ply cabinet - and is very well made, but if anything it sounds more dated now that the trend has moved back away from very tight distortion sounds and into looser 'swampy' ones.

Sessionman said:

Another reason some of the early channel switching amps did not please players, is due to the simple fact that their EQs were placed PRE distortion.  Remember, POST distortion EQ placement had not been thought of yet, back then. 

Compared to a distortion pedal in front of the amp (POST distortion EQ), which players were more used to the tone of, they sounded rather 'messed-up' especially if the amp is set to deep distortion - Sessionette too.  The same problem that causes dislike for the distortion channels of the Fender Blues Deluxe and Hotrod Deluxe now.  Both those Fenders still have the EQ placed PRE distortion!

Yes - I'm one of the strange people who likes the Drive channels on these amps, exactly for that reason - they sound like overdriven Fenders and not like Marshalls. Although post-distortion EQ placement had been around since the Marshall 2203, even if you don't count the Bassman/non-MV Marshalls (which distort at the tone stack driver before the power amp, with a hot enough input signal). The odd thing is how long it took designers to realise that…

dindude

Ah nostalgia ! My first serious amp was a rockkette 30, my elder brother had the sesionette 75. I would serioulsy like to try a Blues Baby one day.