Tonestack controls less than 10 o clock / more than 2 o clock, something's not right, yes or no ?

Telejester

I believe myself if any of the T M or B eq controls are lower than 10 o clock or beyond 2 o clock then something is having to be heavily compensated for in the overall setup. Would you find this to be the case or who is maxing or near maxing the tonestack to get their tone ?

timmysoft

It doesn't matter how you get the tone, as long as you get the tone.

Roland

Why design anything where the controls go from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock, but you only use 40% of the range? Do a google search on plexi settings. Some people like the bass on minimum, and everything else on max.

Telejester

Roland said:

Why design anything where the controls go from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock, but you only use 40% of the range? Do a google search on plexi settings. Some people like the bass on minimum, and everything else on max.

I think Marshall might be an exception as the tone controls don't do a whole lot.

Modulus_Amps

Van Halen brown sound = plexi all controls on 10
AC/DC = all countrols around 4/5
Slash AFD tone you need a kick up the but with high end in the front of the amp, most don't have it.

There are no rules, only thing I would say is having an amp that has a wider range available from the tone stack is better than one that only sounds good with everything on 5

p90fool

My last three amps have had a big step in the pot taper on all three TMB pots between 9 and 10 o'clock.

I'm not going to dial it in to sound horrible just so I can have the knobs all pointing up, but yes, it would be nice if the pot value was lower so the sweet spot was much wider.

gordiji

Albert Collins . A few people testify his bass on zero on quad reverbs with treble on 8 & master on full.

Maynehead

On my mesa dual rectifier, the BMT control positions depend heavily on how much gain I've dialed in.

E.g. with the gain at 8 I have to have the bass on 2, otherwise the bass would be far too boomy. The presence also needs to be very low or else the highs will be too icepicky.

However, with the gain around 4, I need to wack the bass up to 6 or 7, with the presence and treble up higher too otherwise the tone will be thin and muffled.

If i'm going for an authentic  AC/DC tone I sometimes need the treble on full.

It just gives you the flexibility of getting more types of sounds out of the amp and also in my case, balancing the tone for the amount of gain you have dialed in.

professorben

Telejester said:

I believe myself if any of the T M or B eq controls are lower than 10 o clock or beyond 2 o clock then something is having to be heavily compensated for in the overall setup. Would you find this to be the case or who is maxing or near maxing the tonestack to get their tone ?

Ok quick test, set all controls to zero, and get a buddy to move the controls till it sounds good to you while your back is turned. 

It could be that the types of tones you like and amps call for that. 

Personally I have Treble on 8 Mid on 3 Bass on 2, then I run it into a 'smiley' eq curve post gain, but it's a Mesa MK type circuit so it still sounds middy and thick. 

robinbowes

I don't agree with your original premise. It pre-supposes that "noon" (straight up) is a neutral setting for that particular control.

On a lot of amps with a passive tone stack (ie. a lot of Fenders, and Fender-derived circuits), putting tone controls on max is as close as you can get to bypassing the tone stack completely - try it some time

R.

fretmeister

Many Amps have a built in EQ curve.

"Flat" is not all at noon. The Hartke LH series puts it in the manual. Bass and treble at zero, mids at 10 is actually flat.

digitalscream

Telejester said:

I believe myself if any of the T M or B eq controls are lower than 10 o clock or beyond 2 o clock then something is having to be heavily compensated for in the overall setup. Would you find this to be the case or who is maxing or near maxing the tonestack to get their tone ?

Why just stop at the tone stack?

What about the gain controls? Presence? Depth? Master volumes?

On what basis are you saying that the manufacturer's designed range for the tone stack is incorrect, but their designed range for all the other controls is valid?

ICBM

Telejester said:

I believe myself if any of the T M or B eq controls are lower than 10 o clock or beyond 2 o clock then something is having to be heavily compensated for in the overall setup. Would you find this to be the case or who is maxing or near maxing the tonestack to get their tone ?

The controls have a range from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock for a reason - so you're able to use it. I very often run the bass full up and the mid at or near zero on many guitar amps.

fretmeister said:

"Flat" is not all at noon. The Hartke LH series puts it in the manual. Bass and treble at zero, mids at 10 is actually flat.

But it's very important to remember that *this is just for the tone stack*. That will not give a flat response from the *amp*, which is much more dependent on the rest of the circuit, and especially the speaker cabinet - this is even more true for guitar amps than bass amps. The reason the tone stack is designed to have a large inherent scoop is because the rest of the amp has a strong midrange emphasis.

There is a theory that if you find the 'sweet spot' on each control where it seem to have the most effect over the smallest range, that this gives the 'best' tone. I have to say that having tried it on a lot of amps, there does seem to be something in it… although I'm not sure exactly why. It's not usually with the controls all at halfway, either - in fact I've never come across one which is.

p90fool

ICBM said:

Telejester said:

I believe myself if any of the T M or B eq controls are lower than 10 o clock or beyond 2 o clock then something is having to be heavily compensated for in the overall setup. Would you find this to be the case or who is maxing or near maxing the tonestack to get their tone ?

The controls have a range from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock for a reason - so you're able to use it. I very often run the bass full up and the mid at or near zero on many guitar amps.

fretmeister said:

"Flat" is not all at noon. The Hartke LH series puts it in the manual. Bass and treble at zero, mids at 10 is actually flat.

But it's very important to remember that *this is just for the tone stack*. That will not give a flat response from the *amp*, which is much more dependent on the rest of the circuit, and especially the speaker cabinet - this is even more true for guitar amps than bass amps. The reason the tone stack is designed to have a large inherent scoop is because the rest of the amp has a strong midrange emphasis.

There is a theory that if you find the 'sweet spot' on each control where it seem to have the most effect over the smallest range, that this gives the 'best' tone. I have to say that having tried it on a lot of amps, there does seem to be something in it… although I'm not sure exactly why. It's not usually with the controls all at halfway, either - in fact I've never come across one which is.

This last bit is exactly where I've arrived by accident with most amps, especially with treble controls. There is usually a point on the dial where it makes the biggest difference, just over it sounds too toppy and just under it sounds artificially muffled. 

There is something to be said for finding the spot where nothing hurts or disappears in the mix and just playing the guitar, even if it wasn't the tone you were originally aiming for. 

It's almost like the amp has a natural voice, and deviating too far means you're just fighting it all the time. 

clarkefan

I'd agree with that idea except I'll throw in volume.  Those perfect settings change for me depending on volume. I'd suggest right volume first, then tweak.

professorben

clarkefan said:

I'd agree with that idea except I'll throw in volume.  Those perfect settings change for me depending on volume. I'd suggest right volume first, then tweak.

Either/Or. 
The right tone will cut through with less volume. 

ThePrettyDamned

Nonsense. 

Turn them. Does it sound good? No? Why? Too much or too little of something? 

Tweak it. Try again. Repeat until happy. If the knobs are at zero/zero/zero and it sounds great, it's great. 

normula1

 On my Mesa Studio 22 I typically start with all controls on zero and turn each one up until it suddenly starts to do something as per Matt Schofield. 
Having said that the other day I ignored all of that and I'm currently enjoying the treble on full, middle at 5 and bass at 2.5 on my Mesa Studio 22.

ThePrettyDamned

normula1 said:

 On my Mesa Studio 22 I typically start with all controls on zero and turn each one up until it suddenly starts to do something as per Matt Schofield. 
Having said that the other day I ignored all of that and I'm currently enjoying the treble on full, middle at 5 and bass at 2.5 on my Mesa Studio 22.

I've heard that thing before. Sounds like rubbish. What if the knob does more at a point that sounds crap? 

Much better to use ears. 

professorben

normula1 said:

 On my Mesa Studio 22 I typically start with all controls on zero and turn each one up until it suddenly starts to do something as per Matt Schofield. 
Having said that the other day I ignored all of that and I'm currently enjoying the treble on full, middle at 5 and bass at 2.5 on my Mesa Studio 22.

professorben said

Personally I have Treble on 8 Mid on 3 Bass on 2, then I run it into a 'smiley' eq curve post gain, but it's a Mesa MK type circuit so it still sounds middy and thick. 

Not far off the settings on my Mesa Studio Preamp, which is a either based  of the Studio22 or Mk2C+ depending on who you believe. 

richardhomer

I tend to agree with the OP - except on things like Tweed Fenders which only have a tone and volume control.