Marshalls: educate me

DanR

Probably worth having a look at the new PRS sonzera combos or the Friedman Runt depending on your budget.

shaunm

FelineGuitars said:

Marshall need to make an amp that is basically like a better version of the 2210 or 2205 JCM split channel with 2 independent channels and a boost facility on the lead channel. Add a great FX loop, reverb and maybe a couple of modern touches like Laney did on their Ironheart to aid direct to computer interface or mixing desk, and maybe a re-amping facility and they would have a killer amp in my opinion.

Or take a leaf from Mesa and do a total Marshall like they did the Mesa MK5 (some might argue they did with the JVM410)

I look at that amp and tremble as I just wouldn't know what to do with it. I am so used to amps with one channel and about five/six knobs. 

ICBM

shaunm said:

I look at that amp and tremble as I just wouldn't know what to do with it. I am so used to amps with one channel and about five/six knobs. 

That's pretty much what it is - an amp with six knobs, x3. Just like three amps in the same box, with an overall graphic EQ and a couple of level controls.

FelineGuitars said:

Marshall need to make an amp that is basically like a better version of the 2210 or 2205 JCM split channel with 2 independent channels and a boost facility on the lead channel. Add a great FX loop, reverb and maybe a couple of modern touches like Laney did on their Ironheart to aid direct to computer interface or mixing desk, and maybe a re-amping facility and they would have a killer amp in my opinion.

I've always said that what they need is an amp with one channel exactly like a 1987/1959 (no messing about with 'improvements', just the same circuit) and the other exactly like a 2203/2204 (ditto), a simple series FX loop, and possibly reverb (please just copy one from another manufacturer that actually works properly - clue, starts with F), and the icing on the cake would be switchable valve and solid-state rectifiers.

ie listen to Kossoff on Fire And Water and Angus on Back In Black, make an amp that does those two sounds, job done.

But they won't. Every time they come up with a new amp it's always redesigned and second-guessed to be "better" than that, and always comes with claims that it replicates those two sounds… but doesn't.

Fez

@ICBM I agree Marshall should definitely do a back to basics does what it says on the tin amp. i'm sure they would sell.
To the OP I like the DSL 401 but I tend to use the clean channel and drive pedals. The reason being that while the drive channel is fine the boost just gives more gain so when you kick it in for a solo you disapear from the mix. The other thing is the FX loop is pants.

rico

Fez said:

@ICBM I agree Marshall should definitely do a back to basics does what it says on the tin amp. i'm sure they would sell.
To the OP I like the DSL 401 but I tend to use the clean channel and drive pedals. The reason being that while the drive channel is fine the boost just gives more gain so when you kick it in for a solo you disapear from the mix. The other thing is the FX loop is pants.

Agree with this totally. The FX can be jumped to make it louder and less muddy though, which is a plus.

ICBM

The bigger problem is that it's simply in the wrong place in the circuit, within the section that generates most of the overdrive rather than after it, so it doesn't properly put the modulation effects after the distortion - that's also why using a boost pedal in the loop doesn't work, it increases distortion rather than volume. Why amp designers don't understand the basic purpose of an FX loop is completely beyond me.

At least it's better than the one in the TSL100, which cuts the signal level when engaged… and is footswitchable, so you switch on the loop and disappear in the mix, unless you've got something in the loop which can be preset to a level boost to compensate. WTF? This is supposed to be a professional-quality amp.

BintyTwanger77

Someone recommended a Mesa for what I was looking for, so I tried out the Rectoverb 25W combo, and it is pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

ICBM

BintyTwanger77 said:

Someone recommended a Mesa for what I was looking for, so I tried out the Rectoverb 25W combo, and it is pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

I found the Trem-o-verb was really close to what I was looking for too - I've always said it was the best Marshall they never made. I am selling it now, not because it's no good but because I have no practical need for it any more. I have somehow ended up replacing it with a Marshall TSL122 - it's a long story - but I can't see myself keeping that long-term, it just isn't good enough.

I'm now wondering if the best Marshall they never made is a Yamaha THR100HD, but that remains to be seen...

BintyTwanger77

ICBM said:

BintyTwanger77 said:

Someone recommended a Mesa for what I was looking for, so I tried out the Rectoverb 25W combo, and it is pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

I found the Trem-o-verb was really close to what I was looking for too - I've always said it was the best Marshall they never made. I am selling it now, not because it's no good but because I have no practical need for it any more. I have somehow ended up replacing it with a Marshall TSL122 - it's a long story - but I can't see myself keeping that long-term, it just isn't good enough.

I'm now wondering if the best Marshall they never made is a Yamaha THR100HD, but that remains to be seen...

I think I would go for a Tremoverb if it wasn't such a hernia risk

Basically I have budgeted enough for either the Rectoverb or a Kemper. Not sure which way to go yet. As the Mesa sounds good enough for me to sell my Deluxe Reverb (I like the cleans that much), I might get a 2nd hand Rectoverb to replace the DR altogether and I would still have enough for a Kemper.

nick79

BintyTwanger77 said:

Someone recommended a Mesa for what I was looking for, so I tried out the Rectoverb 25W combo, and it is pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

Good choice. I've got the Mini Rectifier (same amp, just no reverb and it's a head) It's a  Mesa so it needs to be turned up loud to get the best out of it but it's pretty good at low volume too. 
Very versatile, very loud, even on 10w mode. 
And if you pick one up used for a good price you shouldn't lose any on it if you decide to move it on.

BintyTwanger77

nick79 said:

BintyTwanger77 said:

Someone recommended a Mesa for what I was looking for, so I tried out the Rectoverb 25W combo, and it is pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

Good choice. I've got the Mini Rectifier (same amp, just no reverb and it's a head) It's a  Mesa so it needs to be turned up loud to get the best out of it but it's pretty good at low volume too. 
Very versatile, very loud, even on 10w mode. 
And if you pick one up used for a good price you shouldn't lose any on it if you decide to move it on.

I've found one new for £1425, so about £200 less than I've seen it everywhere else.

clarkefan

Marshall are sort of fucked.  They make well regarded reissues but they sell them for what is big money for a lot of people, but they can't sell those amps for £500.

They try capture that magic in cheaper mass - produced variations but they can't put big quality transformers in an amp that costs £500, so magic is not captured.

Have you tried the Boss Katana? That's a lot of arse-kicking amp for (the Marshall company killer) small money.

shaunm

clarkefan said:

Marshall are sort of fucked.  They make well regarded reissues but they sell them for what is big money for a lot of people, but they can't sell those amps for £500.

They try capture that magic in cheaper mass - produced variations but they can't put big quality transformers in an amp that costs £500, so magic is not captured.

Have you tried the Boss Katana? That's a lot of arse-kicking amp for (the Marshall company killer) small money.

Are they struggling to shift the reissues? I thought they were selling well?

clarkefan

Wasn't saying they're not selling, I was trying to say people want the world but won't pay for it anymore.  A plexi back in the 60s would have cost like a month's pay or something, and *most* players today (including me) aren't prepared to spend that kind of wedge.

Obviously not all players, I'm talking about the players like me for whom "even" 500 quid is a decision not taken lightly.

Suddenly Boss Katanas etc look a damn sight more attractive than a JCM800 reissue, no matter how original and amazing they are.

TTBZ

Agree with what most are saying here. I'd love for Marshall to make something that sounds just like an old 800/JMP but with some modern features such as power scaling and a decent fx loop. For my needs I don't even need 2 channels. 

John_P

Imo it's the inclusion of the cheaper models that damage the reputation a little while they try to achieve volume sales.      
The vintsge reissues are all decent amps - jubilee, 2203, jtm45 etc are well made, have an added fx loop and sound great at under 1300 or less.         
For a similar price jvm models give a modern take with multi channels and switching.   

Imo these amps are all fine.   It's the mg and avt type abominations plus the dsl being so so with stories about reliability they have all been built to a price where it starts to go wrong - I get why the make them and want to have a model in each price range but it prevents them being thought of as an upmarket amp to aspire to.   

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

shaunm said:

I look at that amp and tremble as I just wouldn't know what to do with it. I am so used to amps with one channel and about five/six knobs. 

That's pretty much what it is - an amp with six knobs, x3. Just like three amps in the same box, with an overall graphic EQ and a couple of level controls.

FelineGuitars said:

Marshall need to make an amp that is basically like a better version of the 2210 or 2205 JCM split channel with 2 independent channels and a boost facility on the lead channel. Add a great FX loop, reverb and maybe a couple of modern touches like Laney did on their Ironheart to aid direct to computer interface or mixing desk, and maybe a re-amping facility and they would have a killer amp in my opinion.

I've always said that what they need is an amp with one channel exactly like a 1987/1959 (no messing about with 'improvements', just the same circuit) and the other exactly like a 2203/2204 (ditto), a simple series FX loop, and possibly reverb (please just copy one from another manufacturer that actually works properly - clue, starts with F), and the icing on the cake would be switchable valve and solid-state rectifiers.

ie listen to Kossoff on Fire And Water and Angus on Back In Black, make an amp that does those two sounds, job done.

But they won't. Every time they come up with a new amp it's always redesigned and second-guessed to be "better" than that, and always comes with claims that it replicates those two sounds… but doesn't.

Yeah. An extra footswitchable gain stage on the 800 channel would be nice too for hot rodded tones, I guess (and people who don't like it could just not use it). And some form of power scaling, as @TTBZ said.

TTBZ

Dave_Mc said:

Yeah. An extra footswitchable gain stage on the 800 channel would be nice too for hot rodded tones, I guess (and people who don't like it could just not use it). And some form of power scaling, as @TTBZ said.

If they had made the voicing the same, the Laney GH/VH are pretty much this minus the power scaling, just a slightly different feel (harder/less forgiving imo). Just missing that certain marshall mojo that comes with an 800 I guess haha.

PolarityMan

gubble said:

The only Marshalls that I can think of that fit this bill are actually solid state or hybrid amps.

The VS65, VS100 and Mosfet (I forget the model).

They look like marshalls, sound like marshalls....

My only other bit of advice is anything made after 1996 will most likely either sound rubbish, set itself on fire or set itself on fire whilst sounding rubbish.

My JVM was made after 1996 and it sets other amps on fire.

ICBM

To be fair, they do seem to have increased the amount of fire retardant in the JVMs compared to the 2000s.