Pod HD500X tips anyone?

gearaddict

Yes, I know..."get a Helix" 

I got the Pod off ebay for not very much with the intention of using it in 4CM for fx only but I've been playing with the digital amps and it sounds a lot better than I expected. It's not quite there though..still sounds a bit bright and sizzly on most models  just wondering if anyone has used one successfully into the fx return of a valve amp (which is how I am using it) and if there are any tips or tricks?

It does make me wonder about the Helix...is it that much better in terms of core tone? If I sell all my pedals I might think about it, if so.

bloodandtears

There are plenty of Youtube resources.. there is a decent Facebook page..

In particular there is a video of how to do the EQ parametric sweep to remove harshness, and tweak amp SAG.



I am seriously considering selling my pedals and cabs and going FRFR; for simplicity, and general usage. When you consider everything is usually mike'd up when live.. you need monitoring on bigger stages... and Joe Bloggs could careless about your valve setup (or lack of it).

gearaddict

Ta. I had a look at his videos and they are good. I downloaded the patches off his website too, which are free. Putting the parametric eq after the amp certainly makes a big difference. I wonder what Line 6 were thinking though, making the standard models so incredibly fizzy? Maybe they work better direct like that.

I have it sounding pretty good tbh and sometimes I think I prefer it to my actual amp but I think as I turn up the volume, it feels like the amp fills out the room much more than the Pod...if that makes sense. It just seems a bit tightly focused, or thin. Difficult to describe.

Maybe that's the difference between a valve pre-amp and a digitial one, or maybe I can dial it in. Or maybe the Helix is much better. Wish I could get hold of one to try. It would be really annoying to pay 1200 quid and discover it's not that much better.

guitarfishbay

30 day returns from Gear4Music, if you're seriously considering the Helix that's what I'd do.

gearaddict

Not a bad idea...I'll probably persevere with the Pod for a bit and see how I go first.

Grumpyrocker

One tip is you can completely ignore the POD's FX loop when doing the 4CM. 

Instead you can use the two inputs and two outputs. As long as you keep the two signal chains separate and panned hard left and right,, then there's no need to deal with the poor FX loop. The other benefit of this is you don't need to waste an FX slot on the loop.

The only downside to this approach is you can't use the onboard looper as it has the pre-and post pre-amp tones going through it at the same time. 

Also there's a volume drop through the POD that makes it seem thinner when often it's just an issue of slightly lower volume. Use the mixer to boost 3.5db or a bit higher depending on what sounds good. 

gearaddict

Grumpyrocker said:

...you can use the two inputs and two outputs...

I might need a diagram for that! You mean the Aux input? 

Voxman

It seems to me that the Line 6 HD500X is a bit like Marmite - folk either love 'em or 'hate 'em.  I'm afraid I'm in the latter category.  I put one through its paces and hated it - I found it noisy, awkward to tweak (too menu driven) and not tonally inspiring.  Sure, there were some nice effects and some decent amp models, but it just didn't feel/sound 'right' and I've stuck with my 'old technology' Tonelabs. 

gearaddict

Yeah, I had an initial "Oh...that's quite nice!" reaction to it because I wasn't expecting much. But it's kid of frustrating that I can't quite get it right. I like the idea of getting all my sounds out of one box and not bothering with the 4CM but I can see me just endlessly tweaking and never quite getting there.

It took a bit of effort to get it so that my amp through the pod sounded the same as my amp by itself but now it does. So that's good. My initial plan was just to switch channels on my amp with midi (annoyingly the midi plug on the Pod is 5 pin so my switchblade cable doesn't fit - I've ordered a new one) and just add in pedals. Part of my reason for getting the Pod was coz it has so many footswitches so I could have 4 for channel changing and 4 for effects.

I remember from my previous foray with the PodX3 live - it feels very much like you're dealing with a piece of computer software that can be a bit quirky...rather than a pedal. I suspect the tonelab is less like that.

Grumpyrocker

gearaddict said:

Grumpyrocker said:

...you can use the two inputs and two outputs...

I might need a diagram for that! You mean the Aux input? 

Yes.

So guitar into POD guitar input.
POD L-out into REAL AMP input
REAL AMP  FX send into POD AUX Input
POD R-out into REAL AMP FX Return

Then you have to be careful how you set up the signal chain in the pod. First input set to GUITAR, second input set to AUX. 

You need to put all your amp/fx blocks in top or bottom positions - so that you always see two complete signal chains. There can be no blocks that cross the streams. And the POD mixer has to be last in the chain. And the mixer panned hard left and right for both signal chains. 

If you are going to try this, it's best to set up a blank  template first to avoid making horrible noises through your amp (until you do that intentionally via your guitar!).

Below are two example patches for FX Only 4CM with the HD500. The top one is blank. The bottom one shows two signal chains populated. Note there is no amp modelling selected.  The top signal chain is effects before the real preamp, the bottom signal chain is effects that appear within the FX loop of the Real Amp.

gearaddict

Wow...cunning. Thanks for that! In your experience does that sound better than the traditional 4CM?

gearaddict

I downloaded a load of patches from some guru on the Line6 forum and they all sound shite through my setup. I can't shake the suspicion that I have one setting wrong somewhere and when I change it there will be a choir of angels harmonising around Am.

I'm in denial, eh?

Voxman

gearaddict said:

Yeah, I had an initial "Oh...that's quite nice!" reaction to it because I wasn't expecting much. But it's kid of frustrating that I can't quite get it right. I like the idea of getting all my sounds out of one box and not bothering with the 4CM but I can see me just endlessly tweaking and never quite getting there.

It took a bit of effort to get it so that my amp through the pod sounded the same as my amp by itself but now it does. So that's good. My initial plan was just to switch channels on my amp with midi (annoyingly the midi plug on the Pod is 5 pin so my switchblade cable doesn't fit - I've ordered a new one) and just add in pedals. Part of my reason for getting the Pod was coz it has so many footswitches so I could have 4 for channel changing and 4 for effects.

I remember from my previous foray with the PodX3 live - it feels very much like you're dealing with a piece of computer software that can be a bit quirky...rather than a pedal. I suspect the tonelab is less like that.

For me the TLSE/TLLE feel warm and just 'there'.  It doesn't matter that the modelling isn't as refined & the HD500X is more 'advanced' in almost every area - it just sounds and feels like an amp, its really easy to use & to tweak live, and does what I need it to do.  The TLSE is a bit big and heavy, but its got the extra expression pedal (one I use for global volume, the other for things like wah), and the Channel A/B switching is really useful live.  I've got the TLLE too which is a bit smaller/lighter and has a single expression pedal, but I like the 'extras' the TLSE gives me.  

Grumpyrocker

gearaddict said:

Wow...cunning. Thanks for that! In your experience does that sound better than the traditional 4CM?

It does. On the original HD500 at least the FX loop adds lots of hiss. And the levels drop even more going through the  POD's FX loop.

With my method above you may have to fiddle a bit with the mixer block levels, but it's much easier to get a better sound than the traditional version using the POD's loop. Just remember not to cross the streams or use the looper.  And you don't have to waste an FX block on the  loop or an EQ to boost the volume drop. 

Also remember to try the various output options, stack, direct, combo etc. The best one for your amp isn't necessarily the most obvious one. 

Grumpyrocker

Oh another tip if you want to make a patch with both a wah and a volume pedal. Set both of them to use the toe-pedal switch but different exp pedal - so wah on exp1, volume on exp2.  Then switch one of the two off with the enter button. 

Now whenever you press down on the toe-pedal switch you'll switch the volume off and the wah on and vice-versa. 

gearaddict

Grumpyrocker said:

Oh another tip if you want to make a patch with both a wah and a volume pedal. Set both of them to use the toe-pedal switch but different exp pedal - so wah on exp1, volume on exp2.  Then switch one of the two off with the enter button. 

Now whenever you press down on the toe-pedal switch you'll switch the volume off and the wah on and vice-versa. 

Nice...thanks.

I've been having another play with the digital pre-amps tonight. Instead of the parametric eq I stuck a graphic eq in after the amp and boosted the lower frequencies. This seemed to fatten it up quite a bit and made it a bit more amp-like...to my ears. I was really pleased. Then I went off and did something else and came back to it and it sounded really muddy and artificial! I tweaked it some more and was happy again...but I bet the same thing will happen. That's a problem with this extensive tweaking...my ears stop working after about 10 minutes.

gearaddict

I'm losing the will already...was playing today in 4CM and tweaked the volume on the pod slightly and the whole tone went away. As far as I can make out I seemed to be going straight into the power amp without any pre-amp at all. And I have no idea why.

Come back stompboxes...all is forgiven

gearaddict

Oddly...the nicest clean tone I've got out of that amp. 

Voxman

gearaddict said:

Grumpyrocker said:

Oh another tip if you want to make a patch with both a wah and a volume pedal. Set both of them to use the toe-pedal switch but different exp pedal - so wah on exp1, volume on exp2.  Then switch one of the two off with the enter button. 

Now whenever you press down on the toe-pedal switch you'll switch the volume off and the wah on and vice-versa. 

Nice...thanks.

I've been having another play with the digital pre-amps tonight. Instead of the parametric eq I stuck a graphic eq in after the amp and boosted the lower frequencies. This seemed to fatten it up quite a bit and made it a bit more amp-like...to my ears. I was really pleased. Then I went off and did something else and came back to it and it sounded really muddy and artificial! I tweaked it some more and was happy again...but I bet the same thing will happen. That's a problem with this extensive tweaking...my ears stop working after about 10 minutes.

I had a similar experience when tweaking both the HD500X and Zoom G5 (the latter I bought, but now sold).  I can't explain why, but its totally different with my Tonelab LE/SE - I don't get that 'tired ears' syndrome and when I go back to presets I've created these still sound good. I know they have limitations & shortfalls of their own, but modelling accuracy aside there's just something about these old Tonelabs that just sounds full & 'right' like an amp.  I really do think that the Vox 'Valvereactor' circuit and valve in them is what makes the difference.  

On paper, the much more modern and uprated modelling in the HD500X and Zoom G5 should absolutely knock it out of the ball-park. And on modelling/effect accuracy they do - but on the tone that comes out, I kept finding the Tonelab just sounded 'better'.  It's crazy and illogical, but its why I not only stuck with my TLLE, but I got myself the TLSE too.  Our second guitarist & singer was so impressed that he got himself a TLLE too.  And there's more than a few folk here who've said they regretted getting rid of their Tonelab LE/SE, and have struggled with 'modern' MFX units since.  So it's not just me!  

Of course when you get to new gear in the Helix/AxFx territory we're talking a real evolution and although I've not heard them in the flesh yet, I'm sure I'd love them - but right now I can't afford or justify spending so much on an MFX unit.  

gearaddict

OK, so I set it up as per Grumpyrocker's alternative 4CM and it does sound more natural. I also got the 5 pin midi cable so I have set up the front row of buttons to call up the first 4 presets on the switchblade (clean, crunch, lead and filth). Then the top buttons to do overdrive, volume boost, chorus and delay. Boom. Finally played some actual music for the first time in 4 days. Phew. 

gearaddict

One good thing about doing it this way is that my core amp sounds can be stored in the switchblade in 128 slots (I will probably only ever use 4)...and if I do decide one of them doesn't sound good, I can tweak it on the amp and all of the presets on the Pod will be automatically 'updated'. Rather than going through all the patches, changing the amp sim in each one.

But I can still use the amp sims if I want to do something the switchblade can't manage.

Cool - I think I'm sorted.