Yamaha SG2000 1981..testing the waters; pricing advice :) Should it stay or should it go????

Voxman

Sorry @Schnozz but you're quite wrong. I definitely would not pay £1,300 for an A1 SG2000.  The build quality is irrelevant because I simply don't like them as a guitar to play and I only buy guitars that I want to play.    

Schnozz

Voxman said:

Sorry @Schnozz but you're quite wrong. I definitely would not pay £1,300 for an A1 SG2000.  The build quality is irrelevant because I simply don't like them as a guitar to play and I only buy guitars that I want to play.    

So you're advising the OP as to what someone would pay (£600-£1200) if they wanted to 'flip it'

dealmaker

I would pay £1500-1700 all day long for a mint SG2000

Schnozz

dealmaker said:

I would pay £1500-1700 all day long for a mint SG2000

So would I - It's just a couple of Loopy Dudes in the North East trying to skew the market.

Voxman

Schnozz said:

Voxman said:

Sorry @Schnozz but you're quite wrong. I definitely would not pay £1,300 for an A1 SG2000.  The build quality is irrelevant because I simply don't like them as a guitar to play and I only buy guitars that I want to play.    

So you're advising the OP as to what someone would pay (£600-£1200) if they wanted to 'flip it'

The first part of the post expressed my personal views on reasonably achievable values. The second part separated that from my personal view of the guitar.  There are other guitars that I generally dont like and wouldn't buy either eg Ricks and Gretsch...excellent guitars but not my cup of tea.  

As I said SGs have their following and there are those that have said they would pay £1500-1800 all day long for an A1 SG Yam.  And I fully acknowledged consistency of build quality. That's fine..but build quality doesn't mean they will suit everybody and as we all know any guitar is worth only what someone will pay for it.

I'm not saying that money isn't achievable, just that its only potentially achievable from a limited number of more specialist buyers.  If there are folk on here that are willing to buy it for £1500-1800 thats great, the OP will get a good price and the buyer will have a nice guitar...no problem.  Its just that I'm not attracted to SGs, which is perfectly reasonable. 

gibby

Schnozz said:

Voxman said:

Sorry @Schnozz but you're quite wrong. I definitely would not pay £1,300 for an A1 SG2000.  The build quality is irrelevant because I simply don't like them as a guitar to play and I only buy guitars that I want to play.    

So you're advising the OP as to what someone would pay (£600-£1200) if they wanted to 'flip it'

Whether someone likes the SG2000 or not, then that has no effect on the price that it is WORTH..It's certainly worth more than £600-£800-£1000. What worries me as a musician (NOT a guitar trader) is that somehow people can justify a Fender Custom Shop as worth £2000+ and lets not mention ludicrous money for R9's.Yes, they are good guitars,but......

Now, I've owned and played a lot of these guitars (and PRS's) and the SG2000 surpasses many of them, which is I why I still own it; the "better guitars" have been sold, BECAUSE they are easier to sell due to the Gibson/Fender logo and MARKETING of the brands, not because they are better or worse. Don't get me wrong, I still have more than 1/2 doz Gibson Les Pauls and they're all awesome (to my ears) but to get those "keeper" guitars I've played many and sold many more.

From a musos point of view, I'd have to say that the SG2000 is at least the same worth as a similar era Les Paul; yes it is heavy and bit "clumpy", and I DO prefer my Les Pauls, BUT it's still a VERY GOOD GUITAR..so after much thought and advice, I won't be letting mine go for any less than £1500 ..IF and WHEN I do decide to sell  

Voxman

gibby said:

Schnozz said:

Voxman said:

Sorry @Schnozz but you're quite wrong. I definitely would not pay £1,300 for an A1 SG2000.  The build quality is irrelevant because I simply don't like them as a guitar to play and I only buy guitars that I want to play.    

So you're advising the OP as to what someone would pay (£600-£1200) if they wanted to 'flip it'

Whether someone likes the SG2000 or not, then that has no effect on the price that it is WORTH..It's certainly worth more than £600-£800-£1000. What worries me as a musician (NOT a guitar trader) is that somehow people can justify a Fender Custom Shop as worth £2000+ and lets not mention ludicrous money for R9's.Yes, they are good guitars,but......

Now, I've owned and played a lot of these guitars (and PRS's) and the SG2000 surpasses many of them, which is I why I still own it; the "better guitars" have been sold, BECAUSE they are easier to sell due to the Gibson/Fender logo and MARKETING of the brands, not because they are better or worse. Don't get me wrong, I still have more than 1/2 doz Gibson Les Pauls and they're all awesome (to my ears) but to get those "keeper" guitars I've played many and sold many more.

From a musos point of view, I'd have to say that the SG2000 is at least the same worth as a similar era Les Paul; yes it is heavy and bit "clumpy", and I DO prefer my Les Pauls, BUT it's still a VERY GOOD GUITAR..so after much thought and advice, I won't be letting mine go for any less than £1500 ..IF and WHEN I do decide to sell  

Absolutely fair enough @gibby - its your guitar so you decide what you want for it.  The values I referred to are not influenced by whether I like the SG2000 personally, and I'm not denying these are good, well made guitars - in fact I emphasised that.  As I said it is a very idiosyncratic 'non-mainstream' guitar and that to someone who specifically wants a Yamaha SG2000, they may well be prepared to pay that amount.  

But for the mainstream type of buyer looking to spend £1500 on a good guitar and who typically will be looking at Gibson, Fender, PRS etc I don't think this will appeal to them at that price.  Any guitar is only worth what a prospective buyer will pay for it.  Without exception, none of the SG2000's on Ebay are selling.  Most are buy it now that keep reappearing and for the handful of 'bid' guitars, there isn't one bid.  Regardless of how great you feel these guitars are, you still have to find the right buyer at the right price and that is a harder task than eg for a Gibson Les Paul or a PRS Cu22 or Cu24.  

Of course, it was Carlos Santana who really 'spearheaded' the SG2000 (if memory serves I think it had a brass sustaining block he wanted under the bridge).  But when he switched to PRS, guitarists who were fans tended to then want a PRS too and I think that's had a downward impact on the SG2000's demand - in other words, it's no longer as 'fashionable' as it used to be and that inevitably impacts on demand and values.  That has no bearing whatsoever on quality, only what most customers tend to be buying.  

dealmaker

Voxman said:

gibby said:

Schnozz said:

Voxman said:

Sorry @Schnozz but you're quite wrong. I definitely would not pay £1,300 for an A1 SG2000.  The build quality is irrelevant because I simply don't like them as a guitar to play and I only buy guitars that I want to play.    

So you're advising the OP as to what someone would pay (£600-£1200) if they wanted to 'flip it'

Whether someone likes the SG2000 or not, then that has no effect on the price that it is WORTH..It's certainly worth more than £600-£800-£1000. What worries me as a musician (NOT a guitar trader) is that somehow people can justify a Fender Custom Shop as worth £2000+ and lets not mention ludicrous money for R9's.Yes, they are good guitars,but......

Now, I've owned and played a lot of these guitars (and PRS's) and the SG2000 surpasses many of them, which is I why I still own it; the "better guitars" have been sold, BECAUSE they are easier to sell due to the Gibson/Fender logo and MARKETING of the brands, not because they are better or worse. Don't get me wrong, I still have more than 1/2 doz Gibson Les Pauls and they're all awesome (to my ears) but to get those "keeper" guitars I've played many and sold many more.

From a musos point of view, I'd have to say that the SG2000 is at least the same worth as a similar era Les Paul; yes it is heavy and bit "clumpy", and I DO prefer my Les Pauls, BUT it's still a VERY GOOD GUITAR..so after much thought and advice, I won't be letting mine go for any less than £1500 ..IF and WHEN I do decide to sell  

Absolutely fair enough @gibby - its your guitar so you decide what you want for it.  The values I referred to are not influenced by whether I like the SG2000 personally, and I'm not denying these are good, well made guitars - in fact I emphasised that.  As I said it is a very idiosyncratic 'non-mainstream' guitar and that to someone who specifically wants a Yamaha SG2000, they may well be prepared to pay that amount.  

But for the mainstream type of buyer looking to spend £1500 on a good guitar and who typically will be looking at Gibson, Fender, PRS etc I don't think this will appeal to them at that price.  Any guitar is only worth what a prospective buyer will pay for it.  Without exception, none of the SG2000's on Ebay are selling.  Most are buy it now that keep reappearing and for the handful of 'bid' guitars, there isn't one bid.  Regardless of how great you feel these guitars are, you still have to find the right buyer at the right price and that is a harder task than eg for a Gibson Les Paul or a PRS Cu22 or Cu24.  

Of course, it was Carlos Santana who really 'spearheaded' the SG2000 (if memory serves I think it had a brass sustaining block he wanted under the bridge).  But when he switched to PRS, guitarists who were fans tended to then want a PRS too and I think that's had a downward impact on the SG2000's demand - in other words, it's no longer as 'fashionable' as it used to be and that inevitably impacts on demand and values.  That has no bearing whatsoever on quality, only what most customers tend to be buying.  

I think the reason that the ones you mention aren't selling is simply because they are either too tatty...or the sellers have been influenced by some of the crazy pricing and are holding out for way too much.

I have my eye on a nice Black SG1802 on there at the moment - but at £1800 the seller is deluding himself. Whereas at £1000 the guitar would have sold ten times over - so probably the right price for it is around £1200 or so. 

As stated previously I am on the lookout for a Black SG2000 (from the re-issue series) - and when they come up they sell pretty much INSTANTLY.  So whilst I agree with some of your points - the fact is that they do indeed sell, when priced correctly and that there is a surprisingly loyal, active and GROWING fanbase for these guitars. 

BloodEagle

The reason they sell quickly is because that guy from the NE immediately buys them and then puts them up for almost double the price. Just over a year ago I put a mint condition black reissue SG2000 on eBay one evening, literally within 5 minutes it had sold for the full asking price (£1200). The buyer, that guy, then immediately put it up for sale at £2300. He can do what he wants, but make no mistake, he is deliberately trying to corner the market and skew prices upwards - now everyone thinks their SG1000 is worth £1300, when in reality £700 or so is realistic. I paid £850 for a mint condition SG2000 about 5 years ago and tat was the top end of what they went for, now I think £1000-1300 is realistic. 

TTony

gibby said:

the "better guitars" have been sold, BECAUSE they are easier to sell due to the Gibson/Fender logo and MARKETING of the brands, not because they are better or worse.

That is sadly true, and true of many guitars - not just the Yam SGs.

gibby

I just work on a principle that a good guitar is a good guitar..doesn't matter who played it or which company is selling it. Was never really a Carlos Santana fan and I remember him more as playing a Gibson LP. I was more into Stuart Adamson of the Skids I own a few PRS's; DGT,Custom 22 and 24,Miras,SC etc etc and I use them coz they're easier to handle, weight wise.. can't say they're better tho ...and don't forget, people still buy and renovate Mk1 Ford Escorts rather than buy a new Ford

Beauty (and value) is in the eye of the beholder

57Deluxe

my '86... Peter Gabriel paid for this for me!

http://i58.tinypic.com/dws5ud.jpg

Voxman

@57Deluxe - 'Peter Gabriel paid for this for me!'.  Sounds like there's a good story waiting to be told here...so don't keep us in suspense...give us the skinny!  

BTW, that's a nice looking example you have there - its quite similar to the colouring of my LP Custom - is that a tobacco sunburst too? 

57Deluxe

@Voxman I did the PR for his Sycho Systems company, promoting Fairlight to artists and the music industry in the late 80s, so  he paid for indirectly as a consequence! I bought this, my Hofner and all my Midi gear and synths at same time... Thanks Pete!

Voxman

57Deluxe said:

@Voxman I did the PR for his Sycho Systems company, promoting Fairlight to artists and the music industry in the late 80s, so  he paid for indirectly as a consequence! I bought this, my Hofner and all my Midi gear and synths at same time... Thanks Pete!

  

Voxman

Just seen two SG2000s on Ebay, one starting at £1150 the other £1250. No bids on either yet but at least those prices are more realistic.  That Supernova guy is on another planet. 

Schnozz

Voxman said:

Just seen two SG2000s on Ebay, one starting at £1150 the other £1250. No bids on either yet but at least those prices are more realistic.  That Supernova guy is on another planet. 

But both are in 'good' condition - Not excellent and certainly not mint.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/M0kAAOSwo4pYmJy0/s-l1600.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/UN0AAOSwImRYmJzO/s-l1600.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GHMAAOSwLEtYjywl/s-l1600.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vZ0AAOSwUKxYjyzk/s-l1600.jpg
If you've sold an SG2000 within the last 12 months for £1200 in under five minutes, then you've clearly under priced it. I sold mine for £1300 6 years ago.
I sold my SG1000 in January for £1200 in under 2 months.
You wouldn't sell a SG1802/1820 for £1200 because that's over 50% less than it's retail price, so it would need to be sufficiently dinged to match.

It just goes back to whether you want a £1350 Production Line Gibson, or a Custom Shop Yamaha. And is an SG1000 worth the same as a (£750-£900) Gibson Les Paul Tribute/Studio? No. That would be poor trade.

Schnozz

57Deluxe said:

my '86... Peter Gabriel paid for this for me!

http://i58.tinypic.com/dws5ud.jpg

V.nice indeed! And you've looked after it.

gibby

Voxman said:

Just seen two SG2000s on Ebay, one starting at £1150 the other £1250. No bids on either yet but at least those prices are more realistic.  That Supernova guy is on another planet. 

Good starting prices and bargains if they stay at those prices...I do like that Tobacco Burst one...:)....but I MUSN'T BUY IT !!!

57Deluxe

/\ I posted it on Yamaha's FBook last year when they were promoting the new stuff and got a msg from Yamaha themselves saying what a beauty it was... Fair praise indeed then! Sounds awesome in the right hands! Maybe not so much mine though as is SO LOUD I struggle to rein it in at stage volume through a hot Valve amp!