Custom RI from Standard Models

fnpt

So how can you tell between a normal standard Gibson LP and a R8 or R9?

Any particular difference in construction or is it just the quality of the materials used?

guitargeek62

Surely it's the one that looks/plays/feels/sounds better, right? Gotta be something to make it worth the extra $

fnpt

guitargeek62 said:

Surely it's the one that looks/plays/feels/sounds better, right? Gotta be something to make it worth the extra $

Hopefully yes, but I suppose what I'm really asking is if there are any visual clues to tell one from another.

jd0272

fnpt;9684" said:

So how can you tell between a normal standard Gibson LP and a R8 or R9?



Any particular difference in construction or is it just the quality of the materials used?

Get thee to a Guitar Emporium my good man.

Skipped

Put them side by side and carefully examine them.

Let's take the first one. See those rings? Unmistakable recycled plastic from melted down 1980s Barbie Dolls. Now check the pickup covers. Manufacture was contracted out to a third party who were given a rough verbal description of the shape and size during a cellphone call with a very poor connection. By Stevie Wonder.
Yes?
That is the Historic guitar.


Did I mention that I am a huge Gibson fanboy?

jd0272

And again, get self to a guitar shop and try them. (You will find shite in the CS however, so try try and try again).

CHRISB50

New standards have compound radius boards, asymmetrical necks, coil splitting, weight relief. Reissues don't but you get a nice certificate, and pay about a grand extra, give or take.

crunchman

As @CHRISB50 stated the Standards have all the weird modern stuff - compound radius, assymetrical etc.

The Traditional is actually closer in spec to the Custom Shop guitars.

The most important difference with the Historics are that they are all solid, and not weight relieved.  They save the lighter (better quality??) mahogany  for the Custom Shop and it is the only way to get a solid Les Paul.  I think it does make a difference to the tone.

The Historic also has the "Long Tenon" neck joint.  How much difference it makes is a matter of much debate on some forums, but the purists think it's important and an important part of the recipe for a proper Les Paul.

Whatever the reason, a good Historic is something special.  When I bought my R8, Guitar Village was blowing out Traditionals for around £1300 and I was planning on buying one of them.  I tried about 5 of them, and thought I'd try a second hand R8 they had for comparison.  The R8 was on a completely different level and I ended up paying the extra and buying that.

Like all Gibsons, the Custom Shop ones are variable.  The plaintop 1960 that I had before was nowhere near as good as my R8.  I've played a number of other Custom Shop LPs and they are definitely variable.

I also remember playing a stunning Traditional when trying out a pedal in a shop a few years ago.  If Guitar Village had had one that good I wouldn't have bought the R8, but I've not played one as good since - and I've tried quite a few.

fretfinder

R8s are miles better that Standards or Traditionals (see my R8 for sale in the classifieds...). :-S

EdGrip

So you mean Gibson deliberately keep a load of easy-to-implement purist stuff out of the standard-priced ranges in order to to upsell Historic models to people who want those easy-to-implement purist things, like how Fender forces you from the Standard range to the American range if you want 22 frets? Isn't the technical term for that a "cunt's trick"?

CHRISB50

EdGrip;148134" said:

So you mean Gibson deliberately keep a load of easy-to-implement purist stuff out of the standard-priced ranges in order to to upsell Historic models to people who want those easy-to-implement purist things, like how Fender forces you from the Standard range to the American range if you want 22 frets? Isn't the technical term for that a "cunt's trick"?

I think Gibson take the 'cunts trick' as you so delicately put it, a step further by releasing the 'ever closer to the original spec' effort every year. 2012 to 2013 with the hide glue for the neck joint, 2013 to 2014 with hide glue used to attach the board etc. And then the obligatory price rise. It does take the piss.

I wonder what year they will actually produce a nice accurate copy of the original spec guitars, and what the price for that will eventually be. The cork sniffers will still lap it up though.

Tex Mexico

Christ alive guys, just don't fucking buy them.

Yeah, three grand for a handmade, US-built, supremely high quality replica of the most desirable guitars ever made. It's a fucking scandal.

Get yourselves some Epiphones and pipe down.

p90fool

Tradirionals are solid now too, and some of them are quite light too. There really is very little in it these days.

If you trust your own judgement, just try some, the Reissue thing is actually a bit of a mug's game tbh, those who spent the money will always tell you it was worth it, but you can never pin them down to why that is. When pressed, they always end up talking about mojo and "better" woods, then they accuse the cynics of having inferior ears if they cant hear the difference.

A good LP is a good LP, slightly thinner nitro and taller pickup rings don't really matter, the actual sonic difference is 20 quid's worth of pots.

fretfinder

Each to their own, try a few and see what you like. If you want something as close as possible to an original 58 or 59 LP as played by your heroes of old, with the right colour, weight and neck shape, and a solid body, then only a RI is likely to come close. I've owned half a dozen Standards over the years and as many Historics, and to me the latter have all been better guitars. To me the price differential is also worth it - I never buy new guitars and if you're patient you can get good deals on used Historics. Those who suggest you should just get an Epiphone ought to go out and try a few more guitars...

p90fool

fretfinder said:

Each to their own, try a few and see what you like. If you want something as close as possible to an original 58 or 59 LP as played by your heroes of old, with the right colour, weight and neck shape, and a solid body, then only a RI is likely to come close.

Trads ARE solid and come in a variety of nice bursts and a couple of neck shapes. I do like Historics, I like the nicer, thinner binding and the finish, the 500k log pots and the 50s wiring, the ABR-1 I can take or leave.

Seriously, Historics are nice, but not in any way which actually affects anything or can't be changed cheaply.

A lot of people try a range of Les Pauls in a shop and come away saying that every single Historic was more responsive than lesser models, more alive, more dynamic - but it's often just the fact that the tone caps are soldered to the other lug on the volume pots.

I love a good Les Paul, but because I understand what makes a good 'un within the bounderies of my own personal requirements, I know I simply don't NEED to spend the extra thousand quid  for some (admittedly nice) inconsequential details.

Jez6345789

I was looking for a Les Paul about 10 years ago and once you get into the details the whole CS reissue market is a pretty cynical branding exercise. As has been said here the minute creeping changes like  the glue, fake bumble bee caps. The lottery that is Gibson wood selection etc etc. 

I am not a Gibson hater I just think that the whole business model is a bit broken what happened to the concept of making something the best you can for the money. With PRS and to a degree Fender the best practice from the custom shop model trickles down into better production.The PRS you buy today is better nuanced and refined than what went before. Although Fender play controlling certain specs into certain price points, although they have loosened that approach a little of late. 

At the time I ended up forgetting about having Gibson on the headstock and grabbed a nice trio of  2nd hand Japanese copies from the late 80's a Burny, a Greco and an Edwards. All one piece or two piece 1/4 sawn light weight mahogany bodies, the much sought after Long Tenon Neck joint (My ears cant hear the difference). Over time I sold the Burny and the Greco and actually the much newer Edwards was the nicer guitar. All the workman ship on those guitars was better than a lot of US guitars at the time and I bought the three  for less than the store price of a Les Paul standard.

In the future I might revisit the idea of Gibson on the headstock but when I need a Les Paul fix out comes the Edwards.

CHRISB50

Tex Mexico said:

Christ alive guys, just don't fucking buy them.

Yeah, three grand for a handmade, US-built, supremely high quality replica of the most desirable guitars ever made. It's a fucking scandal.

Get yourselves some Epiphones and pipe down.

Cor, easy tiger. No intention to upset you.

I'm not saying they are not good guitars. I have a 2012 R8! I bought it as I liked the guitar, and I got a good deal, not because it's as close as you can get to the holy grail.

If you want an exact copy, get a replica custom made by a luthier.

My point is that Gibson could produce a much better approximation of an original vintage guitar than they do, straight away, rather than drip feed improvements each year, and charge a ridiculous amount more for those changes.

 

fretfinder

p90fool said: I do like Historics, I like the nicer, thinner binding and the finish, the 500k log pots and the 50s wiring.

None of my Historics have come with 50s wiring? Although I haven't had any very recent ones.

fretfinder

p90fool said: I do like Historics, I like the nicer, thinner binding and the finish, the 500k log pots and the 50s wiring.

None of my Historics have come with 50s wiring? Although I haven't had any very recent ones.

jd0272

Ultimately, you buy what you want to buy, play what you want to play.

DrBob

Tex Mexico said:

Christ alive guys, just don't fucking buy them.

Yeah, three grand for a handmade, US-built, supremely high quality replica of the most desirable guitars ever made. It's a fucking scandal.

Get yourselves some Epiphones and pipe down.

Mate, if we all stop p***ing and moaning about Gibson build quality/pricing/design direction other than the unending deification of the Telecaster, that's the guitar forum world pretty much dead on it's arse right there.

is that what you really want ? ;-)