Cabs... 1x12 vs 2x12 vs 4x12, open vs closed vs ported

Teetonetal

What do you like and why?

I'm not really sure what to expect from each type of cab. I want to buy a new one for my pleximan as I'm not getting on with the 2x12 loaded with G12-30h. It sounds much better when I've run it though the speakers of my Blackstar (WGS veteran 30) and Singleman (v30) which are both 1x12 models.

Generally playing on small stages, with a decent PA so miking is possible. Wondering if I ought to go back to a 1x12 but not sure what each size / option brings to the party. 

Despite playing for such a long time, I've nearly always used combos till now.

TTBZ

I've used a 2x12 cab with "flex back" (Tube Town British 2x12) for years mostly gigging pub covers and recording . For recording and playing at home I leave the back on then pop it off whenever I'm playing with others as it seems to disperse the sound much better - even the drummer noticed the difference and reckoned he could hardly hear me with the back on. 

That said I think it would depend on the type of music you're playing - I'm not sure if an open back 2x12 is going to cut it for gigging with my original band, in which I'm the only guitarist playing heavy riff-based rock music. I think I'm going to want that extra low end and beef that you get with a 4x12 (or maybe a ported 2x12)..

The Matrix NL212 looks really interesting if expensive. Apparently sounds like a 4x12 in a lightweight 212 package with neo speakers. 

guitarfishbay

One factor may be you just prefer V30 type speakers to H magnet Greenbacks.  Personally I feel the same way, though I do like M magnet greenbacks a lot.

What kind of band is it and how many musicians?

In general -

Closed:

- Most directional
- Low end more punchy
- Smaller cabs can often sound more boxy than larger ones
- Larger cabs can often sound more scooped than smaller ones
- Noticeable difference in amount of low end when cab size is increased (if speaker type kept the same).  Cab depth also has an impact on low end.

Open

- Less directional
- Low end doesn't resonate with the same punch as closed back, but they can still sound nice and deep with the right speakers
- Tends to sound less boxy in smaller sizes
- Often weigh a little bit less, due to being less deep (usually) and of course having less wood.

1x12 vs 2x12 vs 4x12.

- Smaller cabs tend to have less deep lows, smaller closed back cabs can sound a bit boxy in relation to larger, but that doesn't automatically mean they don't sound good
- Bigger isn't always better.  I'm a rock player and my preference is for closed 2x12s - there are a couple of other guys on the forum who have the same preference.  If you play in a band with a lot of musicians and the guitar isn't the main instrument sometimes having a less bassy, more middy sound can work better.
- Don't discount weight as a factor.  Nobody is excited about lugging 50kg oversize 4x12 cabs up stairs.


Surely this is where the Helix would be very useful.  You should be able to get a rough idea of tone if you keep the speaker type constant and switch cab size.

Here's a YouTube video that might be useful to an extent.  It compares Mesa 1x12, 2x12, and 4x12 cabs with the same speaker (mesa V30).  

The playing is nice too (it is some mid gain jazzy stuff, just incase you were expecting metal)

Teetonetal

@guitarfishbay great post - thanks! 

I'm using the amp in a variety of situations, but right now mainly as in a backing band for a Sheryl Crow type singer songwriter (so think lots of riffs, low to mid gain, bit of slide, some wailing solos) Line up is 4 piece (bass, drums, e.guitar and acoustic guitar)

Interesting is that whilst the 2x12 sounds really good on it's own, it just doesn't mesh with the band and I struggle to get the required low end (Vox NT 2x12 is a narrowish open backed cab)

Have you got the link to that video? all I see is a static image.

guitarfishbay

Does this one work -

Teetonetal

Yes it does .
Tom certainly making that amp sound great - no matter which cab. Difference seems quite small? Youtube at work perhaps. though th 4x12 seems clearer and the 2x12 the "biggest" sounding

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

- Bigger isn't always better.  I'm a rock player and my preference is for closed 2x12s - there are a couple of other guys on the forum who have the same preference.

@guitarfishbay you said everything I was going to. And I, too, have a preference for 2x12s - closed back for most things, but there's a real joy in open backed semi-clean tones; I'll always have a soft spot for the way AC30s fill a room.

Only thing I'd add, is that I've found closed back cabs can be very usefull on stage in terms of directing sound energy in specific directions; if you want to turn up a bit more than is sensible for the poor people in the audience, you can turn the amp sideways or even backwards and get a noticeable reduction in volume out in the room. With an open backed cab, you get sound radiating in all directions.

This also means that if you're playing the kind of stage that has a really resonant, loud, and brash ambiance for the players that have to stand on it, an open backed cab can more quickly have everyone up there with you complaining you're too loud or needing to crank up themselves - even if you don't think you're very loud, necessarily. With a closed back cab, you can fire the energy away and out of the stage, which clears up the sound for the other players.

professorben

Having gone from 1x12 open back, to a 2x12 closed back to a 4x12 oversized I can defo vouch for the 'size matters' argument, I felt that the 4x12 felt more 'real' if you know what I mean? 

But it's very much a case of picking the cab for the amp, I found my 4x12 a bit scooped which suits my mid heavy amp perfectly, I can wind back the low end and get a much tighter result, also the footprint of a 2x12 is much the same as a 4x12 so I'm not losing any space, if anything it's actually more convenient as now I don't have to bend over to adjust the amp. 

guitarfishbay

Teetonetal said:

Yes it does .
Tom certainly making that amp sound great - no matter which cab. Difference seems quite small? Youtube at work perhaps. though th 4x12 seems clearer and the 2x12 the "biggest" sounding

Well there's only one variable at play - the cab size.  To me there's a difference in voicing but I'm listening in HD on a pair of headphones.  The test would be a bit more useful if there was more chord playing too.

This is another size test comparing two different sized 4x12s, but the playing has more chords in so it is easier to hear the differences cab size can make.  I'm not suggesting you buy a 4x12, just again highlighting the effects of cab size.

The Stiletto cab is the same size as a Marshall 4x12, and the Rectifier cab is the oversize one (it's the same width and depth just taller).  The differences are most obvious in the higher gain modern setting at 4:05.



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FWIW I've owned two Mesa Recto 2x12s, an oversize 4x12, and currently also have an EVH412 cab (Marshall sized) with Mesa V30s.  My bandmate owns the Stiletto 2x12, which is a smaller closed back 2x12, and I've done comparisons with my own Recto 2x12s.

I've found consistent differences in voicing when comparing smaller to larger cabs (speaker type being the same each time), the difference between the Recto 2x12 and Stiletto 2x12 is pretty similar to the difference in the 4x12 cabs in the video above.