Band honeymoon period over - advice please

rico

Ok. I will try and keep this simple. Some you (probably none actually) may know that I have been playing with a new band (well I joined an existing one) for about 4-5 months now and it has been fun for the most part - it's been a while since I have played with a band. 

However, the last couple of sessions have been less enjoyable and quite frustrating in actual fact. Having had a pretty revealing chat with the drummer (a good mate of mine) after the session this weekend It mainly boils down to a few factors but i'll try to break down what the situation is:

1. The other guitarist is mostly in a world of his own - I guess down to a lack of technique, practice, tonal awareness and general attitude. He plays random widdly widdly stuff and bizarre chords - often in a totally incorrect key and often soaked in multi-fx shit. He has no input whatsoever during rehearsals and songwriting. He never says anything on the whatsapp thread apart to say when he is free for practice. 

2. The bassist is definitely more in tune (pardon the pun) with the drummer and I but seems to have a crucial lack of understanding of what a bassist's role in a band is. He will not play a standard bass part and prefers to play 'riffs' at the upper frets of his six-string bass. He has designs on playing funk-derived runs over pretty basic (but awesome!) heavy rock riffs. The mere suggestion of a more standard or 'chugging' bassline was met with a frank 'I won't do chugging riffs - it's boring as fuck'. 

3. The drummer and I were in denial but the singer is just awful. So much so that if I play some recordings to mates or family they can't believe it - after that I was embarrassed to play them any more of our songs. I guess we tried to give him the benefit of the doubt (no monitoring, having to sing and play bass at the same time, having to wear earplugs...I'm clutching at straws here) but no. The lyrical topics are good though. 

4. My mate (drummer) and I are much more committed to making music and we are pretty serious about it - not just a weekend jam type deal to us. It's now at the stage that we would feel embarrassed/awkward playing a gig with the current band because of the above points.

I guess what I am trying to say is that (and without being an egotistical wanker) is that we are both much better (in terms of technical ability, feel, learning agility etc etc) musicians than the other guys and have an actual drive to create music that is half decent and to generate a legitimate fan-base (maybe a pipe dream but whatever).

The caveat is that they are lovely guys and I would hate to cause a massive drama and i'm conscious that finding decent band members is half the battle. The songs we are playing now are all ones that I have written so i've no qualms about playing them with a new band. 

We do not have any shared assets etc apart from a storage locker which is a monthly contract thing. 

Apologies for the rant but it seems the honeymoon period is over and the other guys are limiting our potential - what advice can you give about how to go about this? Cheers!

guitarfishbay

So you and the drummer need to recruit for a different band.

There's no point doing anything else based on your post.

Bridgehouse

guitarfishbay said:

So you and the drummer need to recruit for a different band.

There's no point doing anything else based on your post.

I don't get some bassists - I love playing chugging bass parts - a bit of riffing is great, but the chug is where it's at for me.

You need to find a bass player that will play chugging bass lines or you will forever sound widdly and mediocre at best, and just a cacophony of noise at worse

vasselmeyer

+1 fir sacking them off and starting new with the drummer. Decent drummers are hard to find and you will have your pick of other musicians and you can recruit in ability and personality.

Life's too short to dick around playing music that has potential but without the ability of your band to play it.

richh

+1 on this. No point delaying the inevitable!

It is always easier to leave though, and start fresh, than actually have to fire people. So even if you and the drummer both leave, you can do that and wish them all the best. If they don't like it, then tough!

John_P

Another +1 for moving on.      
Keep the band but replace the other guitarist and singer/bassist or join/form a new band.
    
Sometimes people who aren't great players can bring something to the band that justifies their place but too often it's actually because they don't listen so they can't see the big picture and appreciate how they are actually contributing - they won't change and you'll just get more frustrated.   

simonk

Yeah, move on - I see little point persevering with it as it is, you'll just end up with your spirit totally broken.

monquixote

There doesn't seem to be anything to discuss, you need to sack off the other members and start again.

There is no need to have a second rate guitarist, they are ten a penny.

They audience care about the vocals more than any other part of the band. If they aren't good and audible you will not get repeat bookings and punters will constantly whinge about it.

The bass player might be salvageable provided you explain to him that he needs to strike a balance. I had a similar issue with a previous band where the bass player was a frustrated guitarist. Once we explained that yes sometimes he had to play straight 8s on a chorus it worked really well and the contrast gave it more power.

Also if the songs require straight 8s chugging most of the time then you might need to ask yourself if you've written songs that are rhythmically interesting.

horse

I'd just say 'sorry guys, this isn't working for me, so I'm going to leave you to it', then look for a new band. There's nothing but frustration ahead for you by the sounds if it. No need to be a dick, leave on good terms wishing them well, then poach the drummer!

Bridgehouse

monquixote said:

There doesn't seem to be anything to discuss, you need to sack off the other members and start again.

There is no need to have a second rate guitarist, they are ten a penny.

They audience care about the vocals more than any other part of the band. If they aren't good and audible you will not get repeat bookings and punters will constantly whinge about it.

The bass player might be salvageable provided you explain to him that he needs to strike a balance. I had a similar issue with a previous band where the bass player was a frustrated guitarist. Once we explained that yes sometimes he had to play straight 8s on a chorus it worked really well and the contrast gave it more power.

Funny, I realised recently that as a guitarist, I was actually a frustrated bass player..

Teyeplayer

If it doesn't work don't try to force it. You say it is your own original material you are playing, therefore the songs are your babies and tbh these will always mean more to you than your current line up will.

You've proven to yourself now that these songs work and are worth playing, so you need to find the right people to play them, otherwise you will just make yourself unhappy -which from the tone of your post has already started to happen.

Be honest with the others that the vibe isn't right and then push out on your own with the drummer looking for the right members, when it's right you will know and the magic will happen.

Can't say it will be a heartache free road when you get the right members, but it will be worth everything for those moments that it comes together. 

Wishing you the very best of luck in your musical journey.

TheBigDipper

Musicians communicate with each other and support the material. End of. So if the bass player and other guitarist won't do that, you're just wasting your time. And you already know that, don't you? It's just sometimes easier to stay in a band which frustrates you than to go out and find a new one. 

Practical suggestion - why not try and recruit a bass player for a new project with your drummer mate. Instead of you joining them, they'll be joining you. You'll be able to set the requirement up and make sure the new bass player understands what is needed, agrees with you and actually wants to be part of it. 

Bands, eh?....  

EricTheWeary

I think everyone is saying pretty much the same thing, I suspect it's what you thought anyway and were looking for confirmation (and obviously we've only got your version of events). 

I would say, however, that at an amateur start up level you might be being unrealistic about the singer. New band, new material might mean he is struggling to get his voice around things and friends and family can be unrealistic about expectations when hearing unproduced material (especially if you've presented it to them as him being a bit shit and they are looking to confirm your bias). If he is making good contributions to the songwriting process, is otherwise an okay person and can hold a tune once he's familiar enough with it that seems pretty positive; you don't exactly have to look far to find examples of pop and rock singers who aren't technically great but do fine. 

slacker

TheBigDipper said:

Practical suggestion - why not try and recruit a bass player for a new project with your drummer mate. Instead of you joining them, they'll be joining you. You'll be able to set the requirement up and make sure the new bass player understands what is needed, agrees with you and actually wants to be part of it. 

Bands, eh?....  

It's your band cos you write the material but not because you joined it. All of the others feel its their band. So as above make a new one. 

BTW inventive basslines can work in a smaller band (ie one guitarist) and with a bassist who can walk that line (sic) between too busy and too boring. 

rico

Thanks for the replies so far. Most if not all of what has been said rings true. The chugging thing was just an example of the stubborn nature of the bassist in that respect not focussing on one specific technical foible. 

@monquixote your comment regarding the singer & audience is one of my biggest concerns. Even the most un-musical person will immediately recognise a singer than can't sing - future prospects are then dead in the water. 

guitarfishbay

If you've got songs written, and a good drummer, then that's a big head start for attracting a singer. I'd put your energy into finding a singer... my experience of bassists is many of them are the 'want to join a complete band' type. When you've got a good singer that'll make it a lot easier to get the bassist (or any other musician for that matter), getting good musicians to join without a singer is a much tougher ask

Teyeplayer

guitarfishbay said:

If you've got songs written, and a good drummer, then that's a big head start for attracting a singer. I'd put your energy into finding a singer... my experience of bassists is many of them are the 'want to join a complete band' type. When you've got a good singer that'll make it a lot easier to get the bassist (or any other musician for that matter), getting good musicians to join without a singer is a much tougher ask

What @guitarfishbay just said, sound advice.

Bellycaster

Agree with everyone here, time for a poite chat. You and the Drummer need to have musicians that equal your abilities and who contribute their share to all band matters.

Bridgehouse

Bellycaster said:

Agree with everyone here, time for a poite chat. You and the Drummer need to have musicians that equal your abilities and who contribute their share to all band matters.

I'd replace the word abilities with 'attitude'

Placidcasual79

Seems a no brainier - its a waste of everyones time to carry on as is so it has to end. Still I think there is karmatic value in trying to be decent about things. So with that in mind I think you should leave them - there is no point in giving them ultimatums - just tell em you want different things musically and offer to fulfil any gig commitments for the next month (enough time to cancel future gigs at reasonable notice or for them to find a new guitar player). Leave the band name with them. 

I think this sort of thing is best done face to face so you can deal with any issues as they arise. Hopefully your drummer will come with you - good drummers are hard to find! 

gusman2x

You should leave the band. If you kick the other two out, it'll come back around to you one day. Even if the drummer comes with you, he may well still play with the other two, even if just for fun.