Tested out some FRFR/active speakers with a Helix today

fretmeister

Don't know why you've mentioned me there. I don't know how they work.

But I do know I cannot detect any quality reduction when using the volume on my Helix.

I can detect a reducing about of trouser flapping goodness, but that's not the same thing.

Sporky

Thing is, any analogue volume control will reduce quality by raising the noise floor (all analogue processing raises the noise floor) and thus reducing the signal to noise ratio.

But digital is evil, of course.

guitarfishbay

The problem with digital volume controls is they're all 1s and 0s, and 1s tend to be more musical (as they accentuate the first beat of the bar) and 0s are more even as all pop songs have single digit time signatures like 04/04.

But there's no good way to listen to prog

Sporky

But then it gets compressed, and they throw away as many 0s as possible because they're full of wasted space.

cbellanga

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@cbellanga how did the QSC compare to the Yamaha? If you don't mind me asking? Such a cool looking rig!

At that price level things can get subjective but my feeling is that the QSC is a bit more refined with my AX8 while the DXR sounded less defined and more mid-range / boomy.

The 8" was a bit of a gamble and was relying on the returns option just in case but it's definitely a keeper now, it's pretty loud as well! Every single amp I tried on AX8 sounds great with very minimal / almost no tweaking

Jonathanthomas83

@cbellanga interesting indeed. So you'd say that they're more of a flat response? Do you get enough bass and thud out of the 8"? How is it at bedroom levels compared to the DXR?

I only ask as I'd imagine the 8" helps with that?

cbellanga

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@cbellanga interesting indeed. So you'd say that they're more of a flat response? Do you get enough bass and thud out of the 8"? How is it at bedroom levels compared to the DXR?

I only ask as I'd imagine the 8" helps with that?

I think they are all flat response but within that there are small differences.. it just a matter of taste and to my ears the QSC works better.

I get more than enough bass from it, I actually cut my cabinet at 90hz otherwise it gets too muddy.

My bedroom level is not the usual as I have a soundproofed space at home but it works fine across the range. Taking it to a 6hs rehearsal tomorrow for the first time without a valve amp, will report back

Sporky

I'm sure this has been pointed out already, but "flat" response covers a lot of ground - it's generally used to desccribe a speaker (system) that the response is within +/-3dB over a stated frequency range.

Which means that two "flat" speakers could have frequency responses 6dB apart - quite a bit.

Vibetronic

I've just got a smallish Laney IRT-X for my AX8, just over £300. Does the job and is really portable, which was one of the drivers for getting the AX8 in the first place. Yet to crank it up though as the cats have always been asleep upstairs when I've had the opportunity, but it should be plenty loud enough. The sound seems slightly more like what comes out of our PA than through my monitors, but to be honest I suspect there's little difference.

Jonathanthomas83

@Vibetronic the Laney looks like a bargain!

Danny1969

I haven't gigged an AxeFX or Helix or Kemper but I have used a Bose L1 with a GT10 straight into it. Now I don't recommend these Bose systems for full on band work but they do a job of anything in the 100Hz to 10K region so fine for guitar and have a dispersion pattern far beyond your typical QSC or HK top. 

Would be a bit expensive but very portable backline for a Helix \ Axe \ Kemper ... I wonder if anyone's doing it ?

Danny1969

I think Rockers talking about truncating the bits .... like a fade without any dither .... there are some forms of digital volume control which arguably could introduce small amounts of crosstalk and other stuff but you only see these generally on the cheapest of consumer gadgets

Vibetronic

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Vibetronic the Laney looks like a bargain!

it was one of the cheaper options, but I'd read a good online review (found it - http://sixstringsamurai.co.nz/2016/06/24/fractal-ax8-laney-irt-x-the-rig-your-back-deserves/) and didn't want anything bigger. It's small enough to move around easily for teaching stuff and (should be) loud enough for small gigs if we don't run everything through the PA, and a decent monitor if we do. I think I'll still need to tweak the AX8 settings a bit for it like I do with the PA (which is minimal anyway, just bit less gain and treble), but otherwise it's decent and functional. Definitely worth a look.

Sporky

Danny1969 said:

I think Rockers talking about truncating the bits .... like a fade without any dither .... there are some forms of digital volume control which arguably could introduce small amounts of crosstalk and other stuff but you only see these generally on the cheapest of consumer gadgets

I don't see how just dropping bits would get you any usable volume control though.

Chopping least significant bits just decreases the resolution - basically bit-crushing - without any change in amplitude.

Chopping most significant bits just results in digital noise. Fine if you're in an industrial band but again, not a volume control.

TimmyO

Finally arrived at 5pm - a bit late for a proper test at volume as the neighbours are in and the kids are home. All working nicely though. 

Sounds good, loud, and clear - which is as expected. 

Revealed right away that the little desktop monitors I'd hooked the Helix up to before sound very different - a Voxy patch I'd made was ear-splittingly bright - I can see now why commercial and demo patches have a generous LPF on the IR block (which went a long way to sorting it out) 

Jonathanthomas83

@TimmyO what an awesome setup! How cool does that look, liberating too, I bet! You'll be wanting another for stereo, soon, I promise!

Roland

Danny1969 said:

I haven't gigged an AxeFX or Helix or Kemper but I have used a Bose L1 with a GT10 straight into it. Now I don't recommend these Bose systems for full on band work but they do a job of anything in the 100Hz to 10K region so fine for guitar and have a dispersion pattern far beyond your typical QSC or HK top. 

Would be a bit expensive but very portable backline for a Helix \ Axe \ Kemper ... I wonder if anyone's doing it ?

I didn't like it, or in fact any of the column and sub systems. Fine for acoustic guitar and vocals. However the crossover sits in the middle of the electric guitar range

dindude

Vibetronic said:

I've just got a smallish Laney IRT-X for my AX8, just over £300. Does the job and is really portable, which was one of the drivers for getting the AX8 in the first place. Yet to crank it up though as the cats have always been asleep upstairs when I've had the opportunity, but it should be plenty loud enough. The sound seems slightly more like what comes out of our PA than through my monitors, but to be honest I suspect there's little difference.

You are very considerate to your cats!

cbellanga

So had a 6hs rehearsal yesterday.

I started with the usual bright adjustments as playing at full volume makes a big difference. It was't instant gratification as it would be from a amp + pedals but loads of positive points as well like adding a bit of my sound to the main monitors, easy to tweak on the fly and very solid tone coming from my QSC and the random studio PA.

The amp sounded very stiff though .. I was using a clean amp (bandmaster) with a couple of drives in front and everything sounded very flat and compressed. After some digging this morning I believe the problem was running the master volume at 10 so the AX8's power-amp simulation was compressing everything. After sorting that out it sounds a bit more natural, shame won't have another session prior to our gig next Friday!

I guess it will take a few gigs / rehearsals to get it sounding exactly like I want but I can see the benefits already. The portability as well is amazing. I could potentially take everything with me (including the QSC on its gigbag) on the train easily.

imalrightjack

@Vibetronic - verdict on the Laney?