Separate modelling section

John_A

Where do we post about a Variax?

Surely a tech 21 trademark 60 is an amp?

I think it all gets too complicated having a modelling section, as it is things get posted by application and it works well

NelsonP

OK, so I'm probably not explaining myself too well. I mean like this, but a little more er, UK focussed:
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?forums/digital-modeling-gear.53/

Teetonetal

But why? Are there huge issues. Are people lost in content? Are we going mad with confusion?

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Fretwired said:

I can't really see the issue - a modeller is a unit the models the tones of other manufacturers amps or provides a range of 'classic' tones via digital modelling.  You then have traditional valve/transistor amps - if a valve amp has digital effects its still a valve amp.

What about the Blackstar ID series? They made a big noise about the fact that they don't model any existing amps, yet they are modelling the behaviour of valves with digital components.

Then, of course, you get the Mooer preamp pedals, designed to digitally model existing amps.

And, finally, you have the AMT pedals, which are preamps in and of themselves and model the tones from other manufacturers' preamps...but with analogue tech.

It's a minefield, and unless we can define clearly what goes where...we don't do it.

Moot point anyway, because the decision's already made.

ID core are modelling units - they are modelling the tone of a range of valve amps (without naming them) and use digital processing. I can't see the problem - it's amps that use digital processing for their main tones and valve amps.

NelsonP

Teetonetal said:

But why? Are there huge issues. Are people lost in content? Are we going mad with confusion?

Mainly because if you want to find an area where people are discussing modelling then you currently need to look elsewhere than on here, since it tends to get swamped in discussions about FX pedals.

The brand specific sites are fine, but very specialist and don't get as much traffic.
But there are issues that everyone using this kind of gear shares (routing options, FRFR vs FX return / cab, configuring units for live use etc).

Teetonetal

But surely it's still easy on here as this is not a mega huge site. Amp style question, look in amps. Fx style question look in fx etc.

It's not like the are 100 threads a day in fx section or similar with threads sinking quickly. In amps and fx it can take a few days for threads to sink.

Plus the site has a search function. It's actually quite easy.

Guitar / Amp / Fx seems perfectly reasonable at the moment.

digitalscream

NelsonP said:

Teetonetal said:

But why? Are there huge issues. Are people lost in content? Are we going mad with confusion?

Mainly because if you want to find an area where people are discussing modelling then you currently need to look elsewhere than on here, since it tends to get swamped in discussions about FX pedals.

The brand specific sites are fine, but very specialist and don't get as much traffic.
But there are issues that everyone using this kind of gear shares (routing options, FRFR vs FX return / cab, configuring units for live use etc).

I don't think anybody's had significant problems talking about modellers with the structure of this forum thus far; at least, nothing's changed since we last had this discussion.

The thing is, "modeller" goes across so many different sections that it can't really be pinned down (and we don't accept your "don't bother moving threads, let people figure it out" solution, because that does the exact opposite of what you seem to want to achieve). Use of modellers cuts across effects, amps, studio/recording, live...even guitars. Just choose the one that closest fits your question and start a thread; adding another category to the mix won't make it any better.

NelsonP

I totally agree that there are so many different options out there now that it is a bit of a minefield.

But there is a sense of momentum that is gathering around the Helix, Fractal, Kemper, Amplifire modellers (and some others). Maybe it isn't sufficient to justify its own section, but I do think that it could be made a little easier to find info on these if there were a separate area on here.

Certainly when I was researching different options it was easier to find info / opinions about the relative merits of these units on the Gear Page.

And I'm not sure the current format really does work. Here's a current example:

A question on FRFR in the amps forum:
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/99230/getting-a-kemper-frfr-questions-etc/p1

...and what looks like a similar question in the FX forum:
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/98988/tested-out-some-frfr-active-speakers-with-a-helix-today/p1

Sporky

Perhaps at the next major update we could have tags for posts?

I appreciate that's rather dependent on what Vanilla offers, but then threads could be tagged with FRFR or somesuch.

EricTheWeary

NelsonP said:

I totally agree that there are so many different options out there now that it is a bit of a minefield.

But there is a sense of momentum that is gathering around the Helix, Fractal, Kemper, Amplifire modellers (and some others). Maybe it isn't sufficient to justify its own section, but I do think that it could be made a little easier to find info on these if there were a separate area on here.

Certainly when I was researching different options it was easier to find info / opinions about the relative merits of these units on the Gear Page.

And I'm not sure the current format really does work. Here's a current example:

A question on FRFR in the amps forum:
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/99230/getting-a-kemper-frfr-questions-etc/p1

...and what looks like a similar question in the FX forum:
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/98988/tested-out-some-frfr-active-speakers-with-a-helix-today/p1

I'm sympathetic but people post stuff about guitar or music in Off Topic and technique and theory stuff in Guitar (whilst Theory is a ghost town) so the lane discipline isn't always great here so you could still miss something anyway even with a dedicated bit of the forum. 

TimmyO

digitalscream said:

Moot point anyway, because the decision's already made.

so the rant was just to cheer yourself up ? 

TTony

If we got the search function fully functional, easy to use, easy to filter down to what you're looking for, would that help?

Google finds stuff across the whole www - strikes me that we should be able to put something together for the site that would overcome a large part of the "which section should I post this in" problem - because it would be findable wherever it was posted.

Maybe even have keyword alerts set-up, so if anyone mentions "word", you get an email alert ...

?

Heartfeltdawn

TimmyO said:

I think it's pretty clear what 'modelling' is.

Software modelling = Amplitube, Revalver, Bias FX, Guitar Rig, Scuffham etc. Everything from PC to apps. 
Digital FX modelling = Line 6 DL4, DM4 etc. Digitech rack units, Roland, Boss etc etc. 
Another type of modelling = Every single digital pedal using a chip in order to model a physical tape echo unit 
Guitar modelling = the Variax. 

It's a bit more than Helix, Kemper, and Fractal. 

Bridgehouse

TTony said:

If we got the search function fully functional, easy to use, easy to filter down to what you're looking for, would that help?

Google finds stuff across the whole www - strikes me that we should be able to put something together for the site that would overcome a large part of the "which section should I post this in" problem - because it would be findable wherever it was posted.

Maybe even have keyword alerts set-up, so if anyone mentions "word", you get an email alert ...

?

Could you implement a box with google site specific search within the forum so people can use the functionality of it but from within the structure?

BintyTwanger77

I might be interested in that kind of section, though I don't really have the legs for it.

Who am I kidding? I totally do.

Jonathanthomas83

I've since changed my stance on this. Looking as an FX user, I was always intrigued to read ''modelling" posts that cropped up.

Now I'm a "modeller" owner, I'm more interested in collating/viewing all "modelling" posts in isolation so that they're easier to find.

Im a designer and when we build websites we try to discover and find out "what is the user need?"...fairly clear to me that some really want this whilst others don't...I dont envy you mods!

ThePrettyDamned

Unlike most forums I've been a member of, the search function on this one works really well. 

I tend to think of the Helix as going into fx, but if I was looking for info on it I'd look in both amps and fx and do a search for that poor soul who accidentally stuck a great thread in the off topic. 

NelsonP

Here's someone else who's not entirely sure where to post:

jaysmith said:

I wasn't totally sure if this should be in "Amps" or "FX"                                         

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/99408/atomic-amp-direct-sound#latest

monquixote

The inevitable conclusion i come to when this gets raised is that we should merge amps and fx not create more categories.

digitalscream

TTony said:

If we got the search function fully functional, easy to use, easy to filter down to what you're looking for, would that help?

The search is fully-functional, as we've discussed before. It just needs a lick of paint because people don't know where the options are (or don't take the time to look).