Gigrig G2 vs Midi8. Which switch unit for you?

lukedlb

thanks to this forum I upgraded from the midi8 to the G2. However, I have of late been readjusting my opinion regarding the midi8. I thought to share my observations with others who may or may not share them and inform new G2 owners what to expect and perhaps re-evaluate the older switcher unit. 
Please offer your observations and try to keep them to a G2 vs midi8 discussion rather than simply the glory of the G2. 

John_P

G2 had more loops, better switching, alter the order of loops etc.  

But I can see why you might say the midi8 is better

lukedlb

Size: 
G2: 44x13x7.8 cm
midi8: 37x20x8 cm
For reference: midi14 is 62x21x8
while the shorter length helps include another pedal, the depth of an extra 7 cm means a second row of pedals or room for cables is lost. 

John_P

I'd love them to bring out a smaller version - something like the quartermaster series but with presets you can store rather than the flipflop feature. I'd like to add a switcher to my new board but I don't want something as big as the g2.

lukedlb

The pedalboard estate of a midi14 vs the G2 is an incredible improvement by Gigrig. The extra 7 depth really helps in building a tight pedalboard. 

Gassage

I've had both over the years and tonally, I feel the first series were better. I may be very wrong.

lukedlb

Patch cables:
G2: 2 options of either solderless cables with their small plugs or soldered straight plugs. 
Midi8: accepts any type of sized plug whether soldered or not or prefabricated. 
Here is the extra hidden cost, which most buyers fail to consider in their budget. Gigrig sells a G2 evidence audio solderless cable kit for £359. This is important to consider as regular angled jacks do NOT fit in the reduced back panel. The incredible space saving of the G2 comes at a cost. The alternative is straight soldered plugs which effectively eat up the 7 cm won in the reduced dimensions over the midi8/14. 
Soldering is a skill learnt in a day of soldering. By the end of the day you can go back and redo those first few ugly soldered plugs. There is a cost saving on the cable as well as a sound quality improvement and reliability. The times my solderless plugs have had a bad connection when I moved pedals around; you always have to check they remain tightly screwed when swapping pedals. I have reference cables and they are extraordinary. Their straight plugs are short too so I'll probably invest in a new set to replace my evidence audio. 

lukedlb

Gassage said:

I've had both over the years and tonally, I feel the first series were better. I may be very wrong.

Hang on @Gassage, aren't you in Venice? You're fretboarding from Venice?

Gassage

lukedlb said:

Gassage said:

I've had both over the years and tonally, I feel the first series were better. I may be very wrong.

Hang on @Gassage, aren't you in Venice? You're fretboarding from Venice?

Pissing down.

lukedlb

Gassage said:

lukedlb said:

Gassage said:

I've had both over the years and tonally, I feel the first series were better. I may be very wrong.

Hang on @Gassage, aren't you in Venice? You're fretboarding from Venice?

Pissing down.

I'd best close the windows, then. The sky's turning black here too in bologna. 

lukedlb

Loops:
G2: 10 loops including 2 stereo 
midi8: 6 loops including 1 stereo

The G2 has the advantage here. However, I'd like to suggest that gear fever tends to have a burn out tipping point where pedal accumulation turns into pedal big sale. It's at this point that the midi8 can once again stand up for itself. 

After all, a true bypass Wah can go happily before the midi8. Reverb after. Stereo pedals in the one loop (midi controlled, you know the usual strymon suspects). That leaves fuzz, compressor, eq, drives, modulation. I have my pre amp as a permanent boost after the G2 but a boost may have to go in one of the loops.  

Im trying to suggest that there is a core tone and then there's the voice (wah, eq) type pedal, support (compressor eq boost) type pedal, the distortion (drive, tubescreamer, distortion), and the effect (modulation and echo). I find gear heads are often simply pitting one pedal against another until one wins and that particular drive is eliminated. 
For example:
I could easily eliminate 4 loops on my G2 by pairing the Leslie and flanger, pairing the Kingsley and jtm45 and putting the always on reverb outside the G2. I have a loopy2 so I could get my non bypass eq down to 6 loops with the compressor. 

lukedlb

Presets:
G2: 14 + 1 hidden x 8 banks
midi8: 8 +1 special function true bypass
midi14: 14 + aux/tuner + true bypass + tremolo special features 
Yes, the G2 wins all out here, though no tremolo effect, I believe. The 8 banks allow for programming heaven whether you're the Steven wilsons of the world or a professional musician with 8 bands to juggle or simply a one bank person with particular settings or use the presets as a mixer. 
However, if you've managed to whittle your pedals down to 4 core tones with an extra 4 to mix in, or limit your options to 8 sounds plus some extra footwork on doubled up pedals, the midi8 may be enough. 
Midi free pedals may help in restricting choices and presets. I have no midi pedals so a single bank on the G2 is enough for me; the 8 presets on the midi8 may push it though I believe the mixer option could work better. 

peteri

My G2 arrives all new and shiny tomorrow.

What sold me was the stomp box mode - basically I can have a range of mods along the top row, all actually just changing presets on my Mobius.

Then the bottom row is selecting core tone/drive level (presets) and the top row the gravy.

I haven't come across another unit like that - I'm likely wrong, but that was the deal clincher for me.

Whole point for me was less time tap dancing and a smaller board - all for home use, but I'm planning to play out this year (even if it's just jam/ham nights) and having a neatly organised board was my little treat.

lukedlb

Yes @peteri, the way the G2 can handle the strymon midi pedals and others makes it essential for convenience that I wonder how people get by without the G2. The 8 presets on the midi8 seem few in contrast. 

hotpickups

lukedlb said:

Yes @peteri, the way the G2 can handle the strymon midi pedals and others makes it essential for convenience that I wonder how people get by without the G2. The 8 presets on the midi8 seem few in contrast. 

Have you looked at Disaster Area switchers? Small footprint and seamless usability with strymons. I really rate them but a bit expensive now since brexit

professorben

Gassage said:

lukedlb said:

Gassage said:

I've had both over the years and tonally, I feel the first series were better. I may be very wrong.

Hang on @Gassage, aren't you in Venice? You're fretboarding from Venice?

Pissing down.

Into the canals??

dirty boy!!

lukedlb

Can someone help explain the difference in Midi on the different models? 

TubeGuy

Just chipping in my two penneth. I should add that I've had 3 Pro14s and now have 2 G2s so I'm not qualified to answer the Midi8 question per se. But, in the traditional forum spirit of not answering the OP's question, here goes anyway!

Benefits/ view of the older units (I used 3 in series with zero tone loss):

• Simple operation
• Jack plug space
• Visual confirmation of all settings via dip switches
• Tremolo was a folly
• Huge
• 9V out had limited current

Benefits of the G2 (I use two in series):

• Size
• Simple to program
• I can't discern a tonal difference but actually believe that the buffers are even better in the G2 (and you have to use buffers with no pedals engaged otherwise the tone loss of the cables would sound poor)
• Ability to move the loop insert point
• Top benefit for me: I use two remote backplanes embedded in my board for ease and size of wiring. The foot switches are then connected via DVI-D cables on the floor. You could also use these to put pedals vertically or on an amp.
• Evidence SIS plugs and monorail cable works fabulously well. I've only had two failures over time using 50 cables.
• Substantial road testing on main stages of pro bands means that all the wrinkles have been ironed out over years of operation.

Drawbacks of both:

• Phase is either global, or for the G2 on if any preset has it on. It should be a binary sum (e.g. Two out of phase presets cancel). Many effects pedals flip phase which is audible with one amp and undesirable with two. I have 7 such pedals on my board and this is a real pain. The GigRig guys know of this failing but have no plans to remedy it (unless enough people request it).
• With more stereo pedals coming out, the number of stereo loops on the G2 is limiting (especially as I have to dedicate one just to amp routing)
• No easy extension option. The Remote Loopy shares its ground between audio, power and switch rendering it hum central.
• The Generator is not isolated and so is prone to earth loops unless all its supplied equipment is isolated. I now use Strymon supplies with GigRig Isolators.

Midi on the G2:

• Very rudimentary
• I use a Molten Voltage Simi and Osmosis to map the basic G2 commands into presets for each of my midi pedals. This allows me to get eight different effects from my Moog Clusterflux that I wouldn't otherwise be able to switch by hand quickly.

And here's a pic of my board six months ago (half a dozen changes since):




There's now a Kingsley Page, the Juggler's off because my Dumblish amp (Mystic Blue Star) does it better, I have a second Room Mate, Gamut replaced by my Plosive Treble Booster, and the Nemesis is sold. Plus, I have a new stereo Liquid Ambience and a Kingsley Jestrel (FET Jester for less compression).

Teetonetal

@TubeGuy are you using that board live? That must weigh a tonne!

lukedlb

Thank you @TubeGuy for your excellent input and the jaw dropping pedalboard photo. 
Does the isolated power from the strymon along with the Gigrig isolators effectively eliminate any potential crosstalk and stage interference? Is it a case of what works at home isn't necessarily the case on stage? More importantly, has the G2 made the midi14 redundant? Is there any situation where the midi14 can still hold its ground? Perhaps secondhand price? And finally, does the G2 have any issues that weren't present on the midi14?

professorben

TubeGuy said:

Just chipping in my two penneth. I should add that I've had 3 Pro14s and now have 2 G2s so I'm not qualified to answer the Midi8 question per se. But, in the traditional forum spirit of not answering the OP's question, here goes anyway!

Benefits/ view of the older units (I used 3 in series with zero tone loss):

• Simple operation
• Jack plug space
• Visual confirmation of all settings via dip switches
• Tremolo was a folly
• Huge
• 9V out had limited current

Benefits of the G2 (I use two in series):

• Size
• Simple to program
• I can't discern a tonal difference but actually believe that the buffers are even better in the G2 (and you have to use buffers with no pedals engaged otherwise the tone loss of the cables would sound poor)
• Ability to move the loop insert point
• Top benefit for me: I use two remote backplanes embedded in my board for ease and size of wiring. The foot switches are then connected via DVI-D cables on the floor. You could also use these to put pedals vertically or on an amp.
• Evidence SIS plugs and monorail cable works fabulously well. I've only had two failures over time using 50 cables.
• Substantial road testing on main stages of pro bands means that all the wrinkles have been ironed out over years of operation.

Drawbacks of both:

• Phase is either global, or for the G2 on if any preset has it on. It should be a binary sum (e.g. Two out of phase presets cancel). Many effects pedals flip phase which is audible with one amp and undesirable with two. I have 7 such pedals on my board and this is a real pain. The GigRig guys know of this failing but have no plans to remedy it (unless enough people request it).
• With more stereo pedals coming out, the number of stereo loops on the G2 is limiting (especially as I have to dedicate one just to amp routing)
• No easy extension option. The Remote Loopy shares its ground between audio, power and switch rendering it hum central.
• The Generator is not isolated and so is prone to earth loops unless all its supplied equipment is isolated. I now use Strymon supplies with GigRig Isolators.

Midi on the G2:

• Very rudimentary
• I use a Molten Voltage Simi and Osmosis to map the basic G2 commands into presets for each of my midi pedals. This allows me to get eight different effects from my Moog Clusterflux that I wouldn't otherwise be able to switch by hand quickly.

And here's a pic of my board six months ago (half a dozen changes since):




There's now a Kingsley Page, the Juggler's off because my Dumblish amp (Mystic Blue Star) does it better, I have a second Room Mate, Gamut replaced by my Plosive Treble Booster, and the Nemesis is sold. Plus, I have a new stereo Liquid Ambience and a Kingsley Jestrel (FET Jester for less compression).

Dylan tribute show is it??


seriously, what acts do you play with to necessitate that board??!