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Personally I've never really noticed the circle of fifths being massively valuable in guitar playing, but useful in other areas - for example composing little tunes, or transposing (or checking others' transpositions) for various instruments. For example, if a piece is in G, but the F horn part it rewritten for a Bb tenor saxophone what key is it written in? And if the horn played an F# what note would the transposed sax play? (C#). Parts for Eb and A instruments are even more fun to try work out.
The same goes for the rest of the band, Working on the intros / breaks etc. has made a huge difference to how we sound.
It's also worth remembering that the crowd have, in theory, come to enjoy your act, not criticise it. If they want a perfect rendition, it'll be on iTunes. If they want that raw, interactive vibe that exists at a good gig, all you can do is give it your best shot.
Sorry - I've strayed off topic.
The same goes for the rest of the band, Working on the intros / breaks etc. has made a huge difference to how we sound.
It's also worth remembering that the crowd have, in theory, come to enjoy your act, not criticise it. If they want a perfect rendition, it'll be on iTunes. If they want that raw, interactive vibe that exists at a good gig, all you can do is give it your best shot.
Sorry - I've strayed off topic.
I'll kick you in the bollocks if you don't
But what situations do you find yourself in and what do you want to achieve? Because you might not need to know it at all, but then again it might come in useful when you least expect it.
Some of my favourite, inventive, guitarists don't really know any theory. There are just as many that do. It's up to the individual how they use the info.
Who are your favourite players and why do you like them? Do you think they know the circle of 5ths and the major scale notes off by heart?
Do you know @brad this thread has brought up a lot of great points for an against.
Ultimately im beginning to see the value.
I was trying to figure out the chords of a song the other day, by firstly picking out the melody. It dawned on me that instant knowledge and recall of the major scale and notes within chords were extremely useful.
As I didn't have this I had to revert to playing out the major scale shape and checking what degree of the scale I was playing to try to find a chord to play over.
This was time consuming.
Suffice to say it makes sense to get this info in.
Any good practice routines to get it in?
Otherwise it's like trying to become a surgeon by sticking knives into people. It'll take a long time to go from psychopath to saving lives that way.
The fact you're seeing the value is a good start, it'll help with the learning process.
I was being assessed on this while studying, so I must admit that definitely helped get it together. At first I did it away from the instrument (as I think the nature of the guitar makes this harder than it needs to be) and treated it like leaning my times tables or a spelling test. Doing it away from the instrument meant I could work on it anywhere, at anytime. I'd start from C major and work through the sharp keys one by one to F#. Then I'd do the same but the with the flat keys through to Gb. That made it achievable as only small amounts of info were being added at any time. Perhaps set a target, learn the sharp keys over 7 days, the flat keys over another 7 days?
Writing it out on paper and on the stave was VERY useful (I'm not particularly good at looking at a book and things just sticking). I'd then compare different scales and patterns would emerge which again would help reinforce the info.
Then I'd apply it to the guitar, the easiest way being along one string. Then one octave scales, two octave scales and so on... I had to really think it through and above all be patient. It took a while but once the pieces began to fall into place, it came together pretty quickly. So don't get frustrated if it doesn't happen straight away. This is what worked for me anyway, maybe other folks have different approaches that will be helpful?
I completely agree that knowing theory isn't the be all and end all to great music or playing. But at the same time it can and does open avenues that may not be readily available otherwise. The Nile Rogers story of David Bowie bringing him Let's Dance is a nice example (And Bowie knew his stuff too by the way!).
Indeed. It seems to me that people who don't understand theory often get entirely the wrong end of the stick as to what people who do understand theory do with it.
It's not like you're constantly thinking "oh, right, next chord is Dm7 so theory says I must play these notes...".
You'd never get people arguing that knowing what an adverb is was a hindrance to writing poetry, but weirdly its an argument people make about music.
By all means argue that knowing theory isn't necessary for your average rock musician (I disagree, but I can see where that argument comes from) but the idea that learning theory is in some way stifling or constricting is just total nonsense born out of a complete misunderstanding of what knowing theory means.
I think I've just realised that the Circle of 5ths is also really useful for working out Major Chord construction - Take the Chord of D Major for example, A is the 5th and the relative minor of A is F# which is the 3rd of D major. So in a glance you can see your Root, 3rd and 5th.
Correct me if this doesn't work...
I'm not being flippant, I went to secondary school in the 1960's and we were taught all this stuff in the first and second year, it was compulsory. Is music theory an option for schools/pupils these days?
Dunno. I went to school in the 70’s.