This is a genuine, non-trolling question. I'm curious.
I went to see a band a few days ago at a medium-sized venue (a few hundred capacity). The guitarist was using a Marshall full-stack. The sound coming out of the amp itself was almost as loud as the sound coming out of the PA, meaning that the sound guy had no way of controlling the mix. You could barely hear the vocals, and the sound changed as you walked around the venue (depending on whether the amp was pointing at you or not).
It got me thinking: under what circumstances is a huge amp actually useful in the 21st century?
In a massive arena, obviously no amp is loud enough and you need to run the sound through the PA. So you might as well have a small amp.
In a medium sized venue, having a big amp makes the sound worse as you're competing with the PA. So you're better off with a small amp.
In a tiny venue, you can't fit a massive Marshall stack in anyway, and if you're playing in pubs then you probably don't have a big enough van to drive one round in. And I think the previous point applies anyway - if the venue has a PA (which it must do if you have a singer - surely all venues that put live music on have PAs these days?) then it will be much easier to get a decent mix if your amp isn't fighting with the PA.
At home.. well, that's fairly obvious.
So.. what am I missing? Why doesn't everyone have a small amp and rely on the PA for their live amplification?
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These days, for some, it's because they simply believe small amps are rubbish and they're not a "proper guitarist" unless playing through at least 4 speakers. These people are muppets.
For others, it's because a big amp sounds markedly different to a small amp at the same volume. These people are quite sensible, and while I much prefer a smaller amp wound up to the point of chime/crunch, I fully appreciate it's not the same thing.
I was actually playing it at about 15W - I know this because I also had a 15W amp, and I played at the same volume with either of them, but the 15W amp was just at the point of starting to break up. It did sound fantastic like that, but *only* at that volume - if I needed to be quieter it wasn't as good as simply turning the bigger amp down further.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
No, but there can be if you have a small and directional amp, and especially if it's also badly sited so there's a 'beam of death' in front of it. Some people like to tilt the amp upwards, although I prefer to keep it horizontal and raise it up to about waist height roughly, and have it pointing at an angle across the stage, so it's not directly out into the audience. Height and direction make a big difference to the natural mix, which is something very often overlooked.
If the room is big enough that the kit is mic'ed and the PA is as loud or louder than it, different ball game - but I still preferred the *tone* of the big amp turned down and mic'ed up.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
It's really a question of taste, for high-gain stuff at least - whether you want the clean low-end from a powerful amp, or the boomy, fuzzy low-end from a lower-wattage amp. I tend to sit somewhere in the middle.
As far as I'm concerned, though, there's no excuse for a full stack in 99% of occasions.
If “the venue” is a typical pub or social club and “the PA” is a couple of 1x10” or 1x12” + HF cabs, an 8 channel mixer, one monitor wedge, and no tech to run FoH then using anything other than the guitar amp for the heavy lifting is what you do...
I use a 100 Watt Blackstar Series One head and a 2x12 cab by the way. This is because the 25 Watt 1x10 Mesa Express combo I’d previously been using (and occasionally still do) was struggling for headroom in bigger rooms against an enthusiastic drummer with a big kit and another guitarist. I don’t use more than a small proportion of its potential but I find always having more amp than I need to be a more comfortable situation to be in than sometimes having less amp than I need.
I play guitar and take photos of stuff. I also like beans on toast.
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For me, using a big amp is about tone and control, *not* about volume. As an occasional soundman, I've also had at least as many problems with guitarists with small, directional amps that need to be cranked to get "their sound" and who won't turn down as I have with ones with big amps, if they know how to use them and are willing to listen to off-stage advice.
It's *all* about the mix in the room. If you can achieve that with a small amp, great. But don't think that the big-amp guys are wrong or that the small-amp Nazis guys are always right. A cranked 15W 1x12" producing nothing but a beam of distorted midrange can be far more of a problem than a 100W amp running at less than 5W into a 4x12". (Discounting the space it takes up .)
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I'd be happy to look at a 20 watt tube amp. I think that would be perfect for me, headroom wise.
All. Day. Long, in my opinion. We have a couple of "go to" guys that we will use for local gigs/small festivals around where we play. Most of the other people we work with don't seem to have a clue, and it's very frustrating.
We also come across a lot of students, who have/are studying sound engineering at college. I have no idea what they're being taught though
Guilty as charged on the turning amp up throughout the gig - soon stopped that the second I started wandering out front and listened to the racket I was making.
But I'm not the only one in the band doing this - soundcheck is a pain at the moment as bass player gets all shy and wont play at gig volume and singer whispers into the mic at check and then lights the board up for the first song (when I'm then dashing back and forth trying to reset the levels.
Back to the original question - used to love playing a 100w marshall half stack - just looked the part and sounded good within the limitations noted in the thread (beam of sound etc)
But now I'm going AX8 direct to PA. Sounds 'different' perhaps a little less raw than the old amps I dragged around but the mix, and that is the important bit, is much better now.
biggest bug bear was after telling someone and having to convince them they'd sound shite without cab mic'd due to shape and size of venue. They do sound check and level check and all is good. Then when they start playing guitarist is bastard 3 times louder with totally diff tone and gain setup than he freeking sound checked at meaning i have no option but to almost zero his channel (well should have been zero but was trying to keep a tiny bit of reinforcement for all audience off axis) and then also had to fuck about with rest of bands levels and re-eq him to not let guitar overpower whole lot or be too bright. Organiser says how come they sound crap. Answer was cos guitarist is as thick as too short planks and a bit of a dick . When asked to set amp as if you were playing so I can level up then well surely that's what you do... Not 3 tines volume with completely different sound hahahahahahaha.