Will a jumbo refret lead to jumbo regret?

Christophe

Love the jumbo frets on my recent electric acquisition and all the benefits they bring but this has amplified a lack of joy with the miniature frets on my acoustic. Is it a bad idea to go large or is it just tradition/convention?

AliGorie

Chris - think it through -
Why DONT acoustics come with large fret crowns ?
Theres the 'tradition' aspect, quite a conservative bunch we are - re stylee.
The other point was made to me by a respected builder when I asked the same question was - intonation MIGHT be an issue, i.e. the 'peak' of the crown after some play ware may 'shift' considerably (forward) toward the saddle.
On the other hand it could just be that many 'acoustic' players play a variety of instruments - banjo / mandolin / nylon strung etc, with no issues. Now they an have REALLY small frets - they (and myself) just accept the different feel so we can get on with enjoying the variety of 'plucked string' instruments.
 

ICBM

It's just tradition and convention. Some older archtops - I'm particularly thinking of Hofners, but there are some others I've come across - have jumbo frets.

Intonation shouldn't be an issue if you use a fairly hard grade of frets to avoid 'flatting' as AliGorie said.

Christophe

AliGorie said:

Chris - think it through -
Why DONT acoustics come with large fret crowns ?
Theres the 'tradition' aspect, quite a conservative bunch we are - re stylee.
The other point was made to me by a respected builder when I asked the same question was - intonation MIGHT be an issue, i.e. the 'peak' of the crown after some play ware may 'shift' considerably (forward) toward the saddle.
On the other hand it could just be that many 'acoustic' players play a variety of instruments - banjo / mandolin / nylon strung etc, with no issues. Now they an have REALLY small frets - they (and myself) just accept the different feel so we can get on with enjoying the variety of 'plucked string' instruments.
 

ICBM said:

It's just tradition and convention. Some older archtops - I'm particularly thinking of Hofners, but there are some others I've come across - have jumbo frets.

Intonation shouldn't be an issue if you use a fairly hard grade of frets to avoid 'flatting' as AliGorie said.

Thanks chaps. Will think on this one over before I either:
1. Get a grip 
2. Have a refret with big stainless frets
3. Sell up and buy another Charvel 

FelineGuitars

If you have the acoustic refretted it may be a good idea to not go with the largest you can get like Dunlop 6000, but rather choose something in between like Dunlop 6155 (which you'll find on PRS and modern Fenders). I have done the super large refrets for one customer who ended up wishing they had gone one step down and had us do a n extra fret dress to take a little height out of the frets

AliGorie

ICBM said:

Intonation shouldn't be an issue if you use a fairly hard grade of frets to avoid 'flatting' as AliGorie said.

yeah, my experience was ,. 30 yrs ago - pre v/hard / stainless fretwire, I owned a superb Gordon Smith Gemini which f/board wise 'played it's self' - low jumbo frets.

ICBM

I would use a harder grade of nickel silver, not stainless. I don't like the brash sound of stainless even on electrics, and I think it would be even more noticeable on an acoustic.

(I also know some people say there's no tone difference.)

AliGorie

ICBM said:

I would use a harder grade of nickel silver, not stainless. I don't like the brash sound of stainless even on electrics, and I think it would be even more noticeable on an acoustic.

(I also know some people say there's no tone difference.)

U'r not alone IC, all the ranting on AGF re saddle / nut and bridgepin material and they omit the metal to metal - string to fret influence on tone - not to mention fingerboard / neck and even bridge + plate material (I like the 'effect' of medium / heavy rosewood on response (speed) and tone ).
 

ICBM

AliGorie said:

U'r not alone IC, all the ranting on AGF re saddle / nut and bridgepin material and they omit the metal to metal - string to fret influence on tone - not to mention fingerboard / neck and even bridge + plate material (I like the 'effect' of medium / heavy rosewood on response (speed) and tone ).

Same here. Popular 'wisdom' says that a big heavy rosewood bridge kills tone and volume… try a Gibson Dove and see if that's true .

For what it's worth I hear no tone change with brass bridge pins though - to be really sure, I once fitted half of them and left the others plastic in various combinations of strings, to see if it made any difference… and I'm sure it didn't, the strings all sounded the same relative to each other no matter which had which type. It's hard to really see why they should when the string is not vibrating behind the bridge saddle.

Frets I really do think make a difference though, for the exact reason you said - one end of the sounding part of the string is in contact with them.

Christophe

FelineGuitars said:

If you have the acoustic refretted it may be a good idea to not go with the largest you can get like Dunlop 6000, but rather choose something in between like Dunlop 6155 (which you'll find on PRS and modern Fenders). I have done the super large refrets for one customer who ended up wishing they had gone one step down and had us do a n extra fret dress to take a little height out of the frets

@FelineGuitars does The cost for a refret depend on the time it takes, type of guitar or it it a standard price?

Christophe

ICBM said:

I would use a harder grade of nickel silver, not stainless. I don't like the brash sound of stainless even on electrics, and I think it would be even more noticeable on an acoustic.

(I also know some people say there's no tone difference.)

I quite like the feel and tone of stainless as I had them previously on an EVH stealth with an ebony board but at the time I didn't have anything else to compare to tone wise

FelineGuitars

Everything is time dependent but a full refret (including fret dress and setup ) is typically about 4-5 hours work which matches or exceeds our menu price of £240, so using a menu price can often favour the player. 

Stainless adds cost  and if going to a larger wire will often necessitate a new nut too

Christophe

FelineGuitars said:

Everything is time dependent but a full refret (including fret dress and setup ) is typically about 4-5 hours work which matches or exceeds our menu price of £240, so using a menu price can often favour the player. 

Stainless adds cost  and if going to a larger wire will often necessitate a new nut too

Thanks, good to know

Funkfingers

FelineGuitars said:

going to a larger wire will often necessitate a new nut

Possibly, a new bridge saddle too.

breezytele

6105 is a popular size ( tall, narrow ) these days

EVO GOLD ,  from JESCAR is a great wire... in between Stainless steel and nickel silver on the Vickers hardness scale. ( but closer to stainless for resisting wear )

The  'Gold look' is more akin to a soft bronze... not brash looking in the slightest . It's got a warm finish akin to nickel.