Knife in the back for pensioners..

ToneControl

OK, let's step back;

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/ageing/articles/changesintheolderresidentcarehomepopulationbetween2001and2011/2014-08-01

it says:

1. there has been no material change in the numbers over 65 needing residential care since 2001
2. 0.3% up, even though there are 11% more of that age, so there is no sudden new "crisis" 
3. The number needing it is 3.5% of those over 65. A small proportion

so what most people seem to be saying in the media and posts here is that, if you're one of those 3.5% of people, tough shit - you can pay for it yourself, and your family will not benefit from your life savings, we won't chip in, we're all right Jack

have I got that right?

guitarfishbay

It has to be brought in to the NHS to be fair. We will all die but most of us will have no control over how or how long that we will need support during our deterioration.

How is it fair that we fund indefinite hospital stays (providing it is due to medical necessity), potentially multiple expensive surgeries/treatments in some scenarios but if you need long term care that's tough.

I think it's fairer to spread the burden of cost through raised tax that the majority contribute to... that way we are all paying throughout life

Fretwired

Interesting stat .. 3.4 million pensioners spend £72 billion ... are you sure they shouldn't contribute to their care?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-4525884/Platinum-72-BILLION-splurge-forget-young-spenders.html

Axe_meister

The way I see it this is a better deal than before. If you have property today you are forced to sell up to fund your care until you only have 23k less. Under the new deal you at least keep your house until you pass away still leaving 100k to your offspring which is below the ICT threshold.
It stops people selling up and hiding money away.
Those who have no property and/or savings will still get the care they need.
If you planned ahead and have a good pension that will pay for your care then the house can still be passed on but subject to IHT.

Axe_meister

The way I see it this is a better deal than before. If you have property today you are forced to sell up to fund your care until you only have 23k less. Under the new deal you at least keep your house until you pass away still leaving 100k to your offspring which is below the ICT threshold.
It stops people selling up and hiding money away.
Those who have no property and/or savings will still get the care they need.
If you planned ahead and have a good pension that will pay for your care then the house can still be passed on but subject to IHT.

capo4th

I read it that way as well although I still think they will revise the policy this week to get the pensioners back on side. 

Jeremy Corbyn is offering free trips to Blackpool for everyone over 65 who has paid their quota of NI contributions.

mart

ToneControl said:
...

second entry after tFB:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10900579/Middle-class-families-braced-for-inheritance-tax-time-bomb.html
from 2014:

Britain has some of the highest death duties of any country, and it has been estimated that more than a third of home owners face the threat of inheritance tax bills because of rising house prices.
The system is seen as unfair because it taxes assets such as family homes bought with income that was taxed when it was earned.
Estates become liable for the tax when the value rises above £325,000. Married couples are entitled to double the allowance, passing on assets to their children or other relations worth up to £650,000.
However, this arrangement is less generous than any other western country apart from Ireland. The threshold for death duties in the United States is about £3.2 million.

Ooh, at last, something almost like actual facts.

So let's just unpack those a little. That quote says that almost two thirds of home owners are at no risk of paying inheritance tax. 

So around 60% of the home-owning part of the populace are already in the clear.

What proportion of the total population are home-owners? Let's make a wildly generous guess and say that 60% are. 

So 40% of the populace is at no risk of paying IHT since they don't own a house, and of the remaining 60%, only 40% are at risk. So that's 24% of the totsl population "facing the threat of inheritance tax". In other words 76% don't.

Now let's face up to the inappropriate application of the excluded middle in classing people as either "ordinary" or "mega-wealthy".

Yes, being in the richest 24% of the country doesn't not make you "mega-wealthy", but it excludes you from being "ordinary".

And that's without getting into the fine detail of how many "facing the threat" will not actually hit the threshold when the day of reckoning comes, or of how he Torygraph will have used the £300k threshold to determine whether people are at risk or not, when actually the £600k married couple threshold will apply in an awful lot of cases.

thomasw88

capo4th said:

I read it that way as well although I still think they will revise the policy this week to get the pensioners back on side. 

Jeremy Corbyn is offering free trips to Blackpool for everyone over 65 who has paid their quota of NI contributions.

you made that bit up again about corbyn.  

What a chaotic party the tories are.  Another u-turn.  

  Before any one says that's a sign of a strong govt it clearly is the sign of a party that can't come up with a decent set of policies instead.. Disgraceful party, and no doubt if they u-turn they'll do something just as nasty in a year or two.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

So the Tories are grabbing everything but your first £100k, the other parties would carry on with everything but the first £23,500? It's a straight not a loaded or rhetorical question.

That's not right. At the moment there's a limit of around £75K so after you've paid that the government (local or national) picks up the tab. The Tories have scrapped that so if you own a house worth £500K under the Tories proposed scheme you could pay up to £400K as opposed to £75K.

Boris has been on to say they're off for a rethink .. expect a U-turn.

Nope, there is no cap.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

So the Tories are grabbing everything but your first £100k, the other parties would carry on with everything but the first £23,500? It's a straight not a loaded or rhetorical question.

That's not right. At the moment there's a limit of around £75K so after you've paid that the government (local or national) picks up the tab. The Tories have scrapped that so if you own a house worth £500K under the Tories proposed scheme you could pay up to £400K as opposed to £75K.

Boris has been on to say they're off for a rethink .. expect a U-turn.

Nope, there is no cap.

It was supposed to come in by 2020 .. May has made the new policy up on the fly ..

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/social-care-funding-changes/care-cap-and-means-test-changes/

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

So the Tories are grabbing everything but your first £100k, the other parties would carry on with everything but the first £23,500? It's a straight not a loaded or rhetorical question.

That's not right. At the moment there's a limit of around £75K so after you've paid that the government (local or national) picks up the tab. The Tories have scrapped that so if you own a house worth £500K under the Tories proposed scheme you could pay up to £400K as opposed to £75K.

Boris has been on to say they're off for a rethink .. expect a U-turn.

Nope, there is no cap.

It was supposed to come in by 2020 .. May has made the new policy up on the fly ..

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/social-care-funding-changes/care-cap-and-means-test-changes/

If it's too good to be true...

grungebob

Fretwired said:

Interesting stat .. 3.4 million pensioners spend £72 billion ... are you sure they shouldn't contribute to their care?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-4525884/Platinum-72-BILLION-splurge-forget-young-spenders.html

thats only like £21K each though isnt it?  maths isnt my strong point though.

DarnWeight

So, in her speech this morning, May has now said that a cap will be in place (it just wasn't in the manifesto), and that Corbyn made fake claims that it wasn't in the manifesto (again, it actually wasn't in the manifesto).

If it looks like a U-turn and smells like a U-turn, yep, that's right...it's not, it's a lie from Jeremy Corbyn.

You couldn't make this shit up.

rocktron

The Dementia Tax was a vote loser for the Conservatives from the very people she depends on to give her a landslide majority. They had to change, or update the policy. . . and quickly.

mellowsun

DarnWeight said:

So, in her speech this morning, May has now said that a cap will be in place (it just wasn't in the manifesto), and that Corbyn made fake claims that it wasn't in the manifesto (again, it actually wasn't in the manifesto).

If it looks like a U-turn and smells like a U-turn, yep, that's right...it's not, it's a lie from Jeremy Corbyn.

You couldn't make this shit up.

Whatever happens, it's Corbyn's fault.

I can't understand why they are so touchy about this, the election result is a foregone conclusion. They just need to keep quiet and the turkeys will vote for Christmas as ordered by the MSM.

DarnWeight

Never mind, eh?  A quick rebrand...say, call it the Lost Marble Subsidy, and job's a good 'un.  

After all, it worked so well for the Bedroom Tax.

capo4th

thomasw88 said:

capo4th said:

I read it that way as well although I still think they will revise the policy this week to get the pensioners back on side. 

Jeremy Corbyn is offering free trips to Blackpool for everyone over 65 who has paid their quota of NI contributions.

you made that bit up again about corbyn.  

What a chaotic party the tories are.  Another u-turn.  

  Before any one says that's a sign of a strong govt it clearly is the sign of a party that can't come up with a decent set of policies instead.. Disgraceful party, and no doubt if they u-turn they'll do something just as nasty in a year or two.

True that Blackpool trips are on offer do your research.

Corbyn offered to take some old ladies on a dirty weekend to Blackpool if he wins!

capo4th

Corbyns manifesto is a complete lie. His shadow chancellor stated categorically on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday that Labour would not have to borrow any money!

Labour the joke promises Party !

Garthy

capo4th said:

Corbyns manifesto is a complete lie. His shadow chancellor stated categorically on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday that Labour would not have to borrow any money!

Labour the joke promises Party !

The tax burden under their plans would already be the highest since WW2 just to support their costed parts of the manifesto, what are they going to do to fund the big nationalisation project? Fuckloads of quantitative easing?

mellowsun

Garthy said:

The tax burden under their plans would already be the highest since WW2 just to support their costed parts of the manifesto, what are they going to do to fund the big nationalisation project? Fuckloads of quantitative easing?

And yet if we didn't have an NHS now, you can bet that people would be screaming that 'we can't afford it' if Labour were proposing to set it up now.

After WW2 the country was broke, yet the government set up pensions, NHS, nationalised the railways and built housing for all.

Today, we are far richer, but everyone says we can't afford this and that they want to vote for a party (Tory) that will dismantle all this. Why is that?