Gassing for a new small amp

sidewinderwhy

I'm looking for a change from the Blackstar HT5 finding the clean sound a bit uninspiring, I fancy something with a Fendery flavour to the sound.

Any experiences with the Fender Princeton 68?

I see there's a ltd edition 68 with an Alnico Blue for around £1100 in a shop near me so I could try that out though it's around £200 more than the regular.

 I noticed too that Peach is doing a sale on some ex display / open box Dr Z Maz amps but being hundreds of miles away I can't try before I buy. Are these more of a Voxy sound?

Or could a well chosen amp in a box pedal give a bit of a Fendery sound to the Blackstar without forking out for a new amp?

Cheers

Gassage

I much prefer the 65 to the 68.

colourofsound

The 68 Princeton is very nice - it has slightly more mid-presence than the regular 65s so it's a tad warmer. still very much in the Fendery scooped mids/pristine cleans.

I have a 68 Deluxe and its brill. Try out that Princeton!

Funkfingers

I have a mk1 HT-5. I, too, find the Clean channel somewhat mellow.

Things I have attempted to extract a more Fender-y sound:

• replacing the stock Cerestion loudspeaker with an Eminence Legend
• Fresh valves
• BOSS FRV-1 Reverb pedal in the send/return loop

The loudspeaker upgrade definitely made the Overdrive channel more eloquent. This was convenient because that is the only channel that I normally use. ("Clean" is achieved by rolling down the guitar's volume pot.) 

My HT-5 was already a few years old when I acquired it. The stock valves looked cheap and tired. I opted for the package deal offer at Watford Valves. I agree with their description of the Philips retro ECC83. It possesses a warm midrange that aids the overdrive but, very probably, detracts from the clean channel. (Too smooth in the mids, not enough top end sparkle.) Of all the  ECC83 and 12AX7 valves that I tried, my favourite was a NOS Mullard. 

The BOSS emulation of a classic Fender spring reverb unit adds a strong suggestion of Fender-iness. I try to dial in enough to enhance the guitar but not so much that the notes get drowned.

sidewinderwhy said:
could a well chosen amp in a box pedal give a bit of a Fendery sound to the Blackstar without forking out for a new amp?

Allow me to plug my own FX £ discussion. http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/108785/fs-ft-boss-fdr1-rocktron-chorus-rowin-delay-catalinbread-rah#latest I am not going to pretend to you that a compact pedal is going to perfectly reproduce the dynamic characteristics of a 6V6-powered combo but it does introduce the options of Gain, EQ, Reverb and Modulation. Probably best deployed in the send/return loop.

If you crave point-to-point wired loveliness, I suggest Cornell. I opted for the tweedy Romany Plus. Every once in a while, I wish that I had waited for the launch of its more versatile cousin, the Vintage Brown 10.

AllthegearNoidea

Gassage said:

I much prefer the 65 to the 68.

X2

ICBM

The Limited Edition Princeton with the Blue is a great-sounding amp, quite a lot better than either standard model in my opinion.

Or if that's too much money and/or you still like the Blackstar overdrive sound, and your HT-5 is a non-reverb Mk1, try a HT-5R. It's much better sounding, especially the clean channel - not quite enough that I would actually buy one, but much closer. I haven't experimented that much with different speakers with them, but if you want a Fender voicing then an Eminence or Jensen of some sort would be a better choice than the stock Celestion. If you need somewhere in the middle so the overdrive channel is still Blackstar-y, try a Celestion G12H-30 or even a G12T-75, both of them are a lot brighter and less midrangy.

If you want an amp-in-a-box pedal, try the Boss/Fender FDR-1 - it's essentially a Deluxe Reverb in a pedal. It would probably be best into the FX return, bypassing the Blackstar preamp altogether. It has both tremolo and reverb, although they're a bit fiddly to use (tremolo especially) and can't be footswitched independently from the amp emulation, which is a pain...

challen

Someone is selling a Headstrong Lil' King S in the classifieds. I've got one and would say it's a Fender killer. Tonally, it sits somewhere between a Princeton and a DR with enough grunt for smallish gigs. Point to point handwired and great looks too.

Lebarque

AllthegearNoidea said:

Gassage said:

I much prefer the 65 to the 68.

X2

X3

bwets

They sound very different to Blackstars so I guess it'll be hard to get there with a pedal.

I don't know how much they sell for now but how about an old Champ?

If you go to the shop try the new (Super) Champs, the clean channel is nice. Oh, and a Deluxe Reverb.
Something cheaper- the II (Rivera) series.

guitarblaster

I have a Princeton 68 with a rajin cajun speaker and it's a lovely sounding amp, great clean and overdrive sounds with overdrive pedals. 

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

Blackstar HT-5 non-reverb Mk1 ... try a Celestion G12H-30 or even a G12T-75, both of them are a lot brighter and less midrangy.

The mk1 uses a 10" loudspeaker.

My example is a HT-5H head and the matching cab. Connecting to other loudspeakers and cabinet formats quickly changes the sound. Not always for the better.

ICBM said:

try the Boss/Fender FDR-1 - it's essentially a Deluxe Reverb in a pedal - into the FX return

I just tried that. It sounded better than I expected. Changes made using the pedal's EQ controls are more pronounced. The gain is useful up to a point. Eventually, it takes on a harsh digital grittiness. Likewise, the pedal's reverb gets a bit splashy once the control knob is turned beyond ten o'clock. The modulation is very nice. (It is the reason why I originally bought the pedal.) There is a Tap Tempo feature but it is a chore to set.

For comparison purposes, the next pre-amp device that I tried was a MESA/Boogie V-Twin pedal - "Blue" channel, "To Power Amp" output socket. It was immediately apparent that the V-Twin possessed certain desirable sonic qualities that the BOSS FDR-1 did not.

Returning finally to the Blackstar HT-5's pre-amp, it is not as terrible as I sometimes make it out to be. It just isn't a Fender. It was never designed to be.

CONCLUSION
If you need and/or desire the classic sound of a small Fender blackface amplifier, that is what you should buy. 

ecc83

When it first came out and people were moaning about the lack of clean power (from a FIVE WATT!!) amplifier I did a back of envelope design of a 30-50W sstate  'module' with an internal load to boost the juice. Theory being you get all the amp's tone up to the speaker jack and then a clean amp.  An ID 60  class D PA lump would probably do nicely!

Dave.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

ICBM said:

try the Boss/Fender FDR-1 - it's essentially a Deluxe Reverb in a pedal - into the FX return

I just tried that. It sounded better than I expected. Changes made using the pedal's EQ controls are more pronounced. The gain is useful up to a point. Eventually, it takes on a harsh digital grittiness. Likewise, the pedal's reverb gets a bit splashy once the control knob is turned beyond ten o'clock. The modulation is very nice. (It is the reason why I originally bought the pedal.) There is a Tap Tempo feature but it is a chore to set.

My main issues with it - apart from the tremolo speed being a pain to set - is that you can't footswitch the tremolo on and off while leaving the amp model on… this to me seems like a huge mistake and makes it as good as unusable live - and also that it has no speaker-emulated output so you can't use it direct to the PA (which I would have thought was a major point of an amp-simulating pedal), and finally the knob arrangement, with the ones you're most likely to want to adjust being fiddly stacked knobs and the ones you don't being the big ones. The gain and volume should be big knobs at the ends, and the EQ and modulation stacked ones in the middle. All in all, it appears to be designed by someone who didn't think about how it might be used live.

Sorry, slight thread diversion . It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine because I actually do like the way it sounds. (I agree about the harshness when the gain is right up, but I would never use it like that.)

Funkfingers

Judge for yourself. '65 v. '68 Reissues.

Telejester

Is the speaker farting out still a big problem with Princeton combos ? Lots of bass in a Princeton and a 10 inch speaker, I've seen clips with some serious farting out going on.

Bridgehouse

Telejester said:
 I've seen clips with some serious farting out going on.

What you do in the privacy of your own home...

richardhomer

Lebarque said:

AllthegearNoidea said:

Gassage said:

I much prefer the 65 to the 68.

X2

X3

X4. The 65 PRRI is a truly great clean amp.

sidewinderwhy

Sounds like the 65 is winning in the poll at the moment! 

What was making me initially think 68 was I remember in the blurb from Fender that the range was designed to be more pedal friendly, is it something to do with taking the bright cap out if I remember right?  Or is this only in relation to some of the larger amps? 

I'm a bit in the dark in what taking pedals well means- what happens when an amp doesnt?

4114Effects

Give me a little message if you like ... I'd be happy to build you a nice vintage Fender style amp - the Havard I built in this thread might suit ... http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/99124/nad-fender-harvard-clone-relic-haters-look-away

RandallFlagg

You could always try a Morgan PR12 if you want to spend extra and go boutique, comes with a 12" Celestion Greenback and a reverb dwell control which really helps tame the splash of the reverb, but not tremble unfortunately.