Acoustic strings - a journey...

thomasross20

Sorry you're saying you prefer a good Martin to an Atkin, but Bourgeois tops them all, right? Always wanted to try a Bourgeois... 

I'm specifically wanting that bass punch

stickyfiddle

thomasross20 said:

Sorry you're saying you prefer a good Martin to an Atkin, but Bourgeois tops them all, right? Always wanted to try a Bourgeois... 

I'm specifically wanting that bass punch

For the price I’d probably still take an Atkin over a standard Martin, but when you find a really great Martin it might be better. 

You gotta try a Touchstone at the very least - they’re really special for the money. 

You looking at dreadnoughts? 

thomasross20

Got it, thanks! 
I'm going into store shortly...
OM ...

jackio

I've just restrung my Collings. Decided to go custom D'Adario EJ 11-52's. Ive tried many strings and gone lighter this time.
I rechecked the Collings website and confirmed they send theirs out with with D'Adarios. So I'm sticking to those as I dont notice any appreciable difference. Sound great

jackio

I also read that there's only 3 string makers. I know there's all sorts of different metals used of course. But does anyone know if this is true? Like the Duff beer factory tour in the Simpsons...

MartinB

jackio said:

I also read that there's only 3 string makers. I know there's all sorts of different metals used of course. But does anyone know if this is true? Like the Duff beer factory tour in the Simpsons...

It's not really true, but at least a couple of the large makers (GHS and D'addario, possibly others) do make strings for a lot of other companies selling them under their own names. Though just being made by a certain manufacturer doesn't always mean that the strings are the same as the ones they sell under their own name, either.

jackio

Thanks @MartinB ;
I knew someone would have more than folklore

Tannin

MartinB said:

jackio said:

I also read that there's only 3 string makers. I know there's all sorts of different metals used of course. But does anyone know if this is true? Like the Duff beer factory tour in the Simpsons...

It's not really true, but at least a couple of the large makers (GHS and D'addario, possibly others) do make strings for a lot of other companies selling them under their own names. Though just being made by a certain manufacturer doesn't always mean that the strings are the same as the ones they sell under their own name, either.

Martin is excessively polite. It's not just untrue, it's utter bulllshit. 

Yes, there are certainly factories which churn out many different strings under many different names. Mapes in particular does a heap of OEM manufacturing. Also SIT, I think. And there are groups which are associated: Black Diamond, Ssfazo, and Nicola all come out of the same factory and their company ownership seems to be interlocling or related - but their actual strings are quite different to one-another. Several of the German manufacturers are similarly related (alas, I've forgotten the details now). Martin owns Darco and sells the same strings under both names. (Possibly they vary a little bit, and certainly some of them are made in different countries, but I encourage you to buy a set of standard Martin Authentics and a set of Darcos in the same gauge and spot the difference. (Packaging and price aside, there is none, or certainly none that I can detect. Both great strings, by the way.)

Sometimes I wonder if there is a gigantic Chinese string factory somewhere turning out zillions of items under different labels, as almost all Chinese-made strings are remarkably similar. (They feel like crap, and sound like crap fresh-on, then improve to be merely ordinary at best.) But that's not true either, there are clear differences between the best of them (Adamas, possibly one or two others - Ibanez aren't too bad, Headway are just OK), the many in the middle range, and the worst of them (names deleted to protect the guilty, but you can tell which ones they are simply by glancing at the price tag).

And then look at the huge variety of strings out there - I don't mean look at the different brands and colours in catalogues, I mean actually try the strings - and the answer is very clear. There are more different strings,each  with different feel, construction, tension, attack, wear characteristics, bass response, treble response, and surface roughness, than any sensible person can try out in several years. (Ask me how I know.)

jackio

Oh. Ok. Was happy to put my uncertainty out there and be kindly educated.

MartinB

There was some surprisingly heated discussion on one of the bass forums a few years ago - people had quite solidly deduced that at the time, both Fender and Ernie Ball flatwound sets were made for them by D'Addario. Side-by-side examination (and simply playing the strings) showed that the Fender, D'addario and EB sets weren't identical in recipe, but there were enough common elements, plus the companies being cagey about who did make them, to make it credible enough.

Flatwounds are something of a special case, since they require additional tooling and procedures so not every string maker is setup to do them, and companies making their own roundwounds in-house may still contract them out. And EB have since tooled up to make their own. But it was easy to see how the "one or two companies make them all" rumours develop, especially since it's usually part of the arrangement between companies that neither party names the other.

jackio

Yes. That makes sense. 

Tannin

I was about to say that Fender won't be using D'Addario now because C'Addario manufacture in the USA while Fender makes everything it possibly can in China or at least Mexico. But your point about flatwound strings being a special case is well taken. 

MartinB

Tannin said:

I was about to say that Fender won't be using D'Addario now because C'Addario manufacture in the USA while Fender makes everything it possibly can in China or at least Mexico. But your point about flatwound strings being a special case is well taken. 

All of the current Fender string sets (electric, acoustic and bass) are labelled "Made in USA", unless you think there's some subterfuge going on with that. They don't say whether they're made in-house or contracted to another string winder.

Tannin

^ I stand corrected. I just went and looked at a packet and it does indeed say made in the USA. I've "known" that Fender strings were made in Mexico for some time. Must have mixed them up with another company. 

MartinB

It seems they used to have a winding facility in Ensenada where the Mexican Fender factory is, at least until the late 2000s. At some point since then they starting being labelled "made in USA". But I feel like if they'd set up their own new string production facility in the US they would have made a big deal of that. So my guess would be that the bean counters figured out it would be cheaper to contract string manufacturing out rather than running their own.

thomasross20

I really wish D'addario did bluegrass 11s to get that bit chunkier bass. I don't like treble 12s but can handle them in the bass. 11s in the bass is a bit weak.

They do bluegrass 12s and that works a treat on my parlour. 

rustneversleeps

stickyfiddle said:

String change time for the HD28 again. So the old Authentics lasted just over 3 months.

Martin Retro Monel 12's on now. Early days but first instinct is I LOVE them. They don't have quite the same level of fizzy brightness as the 80/20 Authentics but they have tonnes of upper mid heft which so far I'm really liking on this guitar. They're maybe a little higher tension under the fingers and I think a smidge more draggy than the Authentics but neither is enough to be annoying, I just hope it doesn't need a truss rod tweak as the setup is perfect right now.

More thoughts once I've played really properly for a few hours. It's weird having strings that aren't brass-coloured though...

I’am a big fan of Monel’s.I have them on ALL my acoustics.You need to give them at least a week before they come into their own.They last for ages.Ive tried the rest and kept with the best.

MartinB

rustneversleeps said:

stickyfiddle said:

String change time for the HD28 again. So the old Authentics lasted just over 3 months.

Martin Retro Monel 12's on now. Early days but first instinct is I LOVE them. They don't have quite the same level of fizzy brightness as the 80/20 Authentics but they have tonnes of upper mid heft which so far I'm really liking on this guitar. They're maybe a little higher tension under the fingers and I think a smidge more draggy than the Authentics but neither is enough to be annoying, I just hope it doesn't need a truss rod tweak as the setup is perfect right now.

More thoughts once I've played really properly for a few hours. It's weird having strings that aren't brass-coloured though...

I’am a big fan of Monel’s.I have them on ALL my acoustics.You need to give them at least a week before they come into their own.They last for ages.Ive tried the rest and kept with the best.

I have a set of Newtone monel on my Gibson G45 at the moment, and I feel the main advantage over the Martin Retro set is the lack of break-in time, the Newtones are pretty much there when first installed. So those are worth a try if you like this style of string.