Vintage style trem: how much abuse can they take?

Jetfire

So I'm trying to think of other people than Jeff Beck who abuse a tradition style trem. I mean, can you dive bomb one of these things?

Veganic

I have seen Vini Reilly (Durutti Column) give it some tasteful abuse but I wouldn't call it dive-bombing. 

peteri

I would argue that Jeff Beck doesn't have a traditional system.

Isn't his a 2 point trem with roller nut and locking heads?

daveyh

IIRC the first Van Halen album was done with the frankenstrat pre-Floyd Rose 

steamabacus

Jetfire said:

 I mean, can you dive bomb one of these things?

If set up right, you can get quite aggressive with a traditional six-screw trem  (6m23s) ...


https://youtu.be/O0Oyc6slYRc?t=6m23s

Funkfingers

Jetfire said:

So I'm trying to think of other people than Jeff Beck who abuse a tradition style trem. I mean, can you dive bomb one of these things?

Adrian Belew's work with Zappa, Talking Heads, his first stint with Bowie and the early phase of Discipline/King Crimson were all his abused 1962 Stratocaster. 

sweepy

Some of VH1 was a standard trem iirc

richardhomer

Gary Moore used his a lot before he reinvented himself as a blues player. Hendrix too....

richardhomer

Double post!

matone

Bernie Torme worked vintage strats pretty hard.Watched him at a solo gig,only had two strats and he didn`t have to mess with them all night.

guitars4you

peteri said:

I would argue that Jeff Beck doesn't have a traditional system.

Isn't his a 2 point trem with roller nut and locking heads?

correct

If a vintage system is well set up then you should experience far less tuning stability with them - but how far you want to move from your E as your base note to a note above or below in many ways will determine how effective they are and what shortcomings you are prepared to tolerate - Light variation and shimmer effects and a vintage system is more than adequate - The likes of Hank Marvin utilise this type of setup with no issues and he plays the trem nearly every note - On the other hand the more abusive you wish to be the less effective they become  but as i stated earlier the better the set-up the better results you can achieve

HAL9000

Jimi?

ICBM

If you lock-wrap the strings onto the posts and the nut is cut well, they're pretty good. A lot is down to the player though - you instinctively develop little tweaks and tugs to get it back into tune as you play, whereas if you approach it like a Floyd - where you can essentially just let go of the bar and it will come back perfectly in tune - you will probably have trouble.

You can hear this sort of technique on one of the well-known Deep Purple live recordings (I forget which, and there may be more than one) where after a bit of fairly heavy abuse you hear Blackmore give it a sharp pull upwards at the end and it comes back into tune.

monquixote

If you want a vintage looking system that stays solid then give a blade runner a go. My strat is pretty much impossible to put out of tune with the trem.

bazxkr

ICBM said:

If you lock-wrap the strings onto the posts and the nut is cut well, they're pretty good. A lot is down to the player though - you instinctively develop little tweaks and tugs to get it back into tune as you play, whereas if you approach it like a Floyd - where you can essentially just let go of the bar and it will come back perfectly in tune - you will probably have trouble.

You can hear this sort of technique on one of the well-known Deep Purple live recordings (I forget which, and there may be more than one) where after a bit of fairly heavy abuse you hear Blackmore give it a sharp pull upwards at the end and it comes back into tune.

Agreed
This is Blackmore abusing lightly by his standards.....he rarely had to change guitars or retune excessively.

He used to have large dia bar versions made and still bent them. Probably helps having a pukka tech looking after them too

 

 

Alvin

matone said:

Bernie Torme worked vintage strats pretty hard.Watched him at a solo gig,only had two strats and he didn`t have to mess with them all night.

    I was about to mention him , saw him recently and the abuse he gave the vibrato was pretty severe , however he only used one guitar on that night , i don't think he even retuned (he must have a bit though?) . He also made a point of saying it was a guitar he built (threw together) himself and it hadn't gone out of tune.  He did seem impressed with it himself.
  

ICBM

bazxkr said:

He used to have large dia bar versions made and still bent them.

It wouldn't surprise me if that was from pulling up hard against the body to get it into tune, rather than from pushing down.

Schnozz

If you're asking this question then you need an Original Floyd Rose.

bazxkr

ICBM said:

bazxkr said:

He used to have large dia bar versions made and still bent them.

It wouldn't surprise me if that was from pulling up hard against the body to get it into tune, rather than from pushing down.

You may be right, might also be the jumping up and down on it that he did LOL Feet & guitars not good bedfellows haha

bazxkr

Alvin said:

matone said:

Bernie Torme worked vintage strats pretty hard.Watched him at a solo gig,only had two strats and he didn`t have to mess with them all night.

    I was about to mention him , saw him recently and the abuse he gave the vibrato was pretty severe , however he only used one guitar on that night , i don't think he even retuned (he must have a bit though?) . He also made a point of saying it was a guitar he built (threw together) himself and it hadn't gone out of tune.  He did seem impressed with it himself.
  

Saw Bernie a few times with the Gillan band, great player and very heavy on the bar & like you say never saw him change guitar all night

bazxkr

So is that the expected outcome......Fender vintage trem will take far more abuse than the 2 pin version ?