Comparison of magnet types in humbuckers (video)

Ossyrocks

Hi chaps,

I wasn’t thrilled with the Duncan Antiquities which came in my guitar, they felt a bit weak and lacked midrange for my my taste. I played it for a while, took it on some gigs, but then started looking for some replacement pickups. Then Yuuki said I should try swapping out the magnets before anything else. 
I had never done this before, not even considered it, but I found a guy in London who supplies them and bought some rough cast Alnico 4 magnets for the princely sum of £1.25 each.
I made a video of the guitar weeks and weeks ago, with the intention of swapping the mags and doing another one in comparison. However, it has taken until now for me to get around to swapping them and making the second vid.
I did note the amp settings, so that is a constant in both videos. For info, the amp is a Gartone 5E3, bright input 1, bright volume 7, normal volume 9, treble 10. Quite loud for the lounge, hence not on 10 (gig level). 
The results are interesting (certainly not the playing). The guitar is now louder, fatter, drives the amp harder and has a much sweeter midrange, all of which I like. 
Anyway, forgive the playing, the iPad camera etc, I did this as a comparison for before and after, and I think there is quite a difference, even in the video.

Cheers,
Rob

Original Magnets

https://youtu.be/eDoS7tX2IMM

Replaced Magnets

https://youtu.be/HC5VtmEfChE

bodhi

Sweet.

Who did you buy the magnets from?

tampaxboo

are the magnets made specifically for pickups or was it just an ace fluke that they just happened to be pickup sized?
they seem quite high gainy and quick to distort but there's a time and place for that. and it's useful to know that easy swap out magnets exist of varying strength.

Ossyrocks

bodhi said:

Sweet.

Who did you buy the magnets from?

Cermag, linky here: http://www.cermagmagnets.co.uk/alnico-bars-for-hb---62mm-x-32mm-x-125mm---rough-cast-550-p.asp

Ossyrocks

tampaxboo said:

are the magnets made specifically for pickups or was it just an ace fluke that they just happened to be pickup sized?
they seem quite high gainy and quick to distort but there's a time and place for that. and it's useful to know that easy swap out magnets exist of varying strength.

They are made for humbuckers. Apparently this company also supplies Wizz with their magnets.

Rob

bodhi

Ossyrocks said:

bodhi said:

Sweet.

Who did you buy the magnets from?

Cermag, linky here: http://www.cermagmagnets.co.uk/alnico-bars-for-hb---62mm-x-32mm-x-125mm---rough-cast-550-p.asp

Thanks.  I have a Les Paul here with A5 magnets.  Was thinking about swapping the magnet in the bridge pickup for an A3 or an A4 to see what it does.  A5 in the bridge is a tad harsh at times.

Ossyrocks

bodhi said:

Ossyrocks said:

bodhi said:

Sweet.

Who did you buy the magnets from?

Cermag, linky here: http://www.cermagmagnets.co.uk/alnico-bars-for-hb---62mm-x-32mm-x-125mm---rough-cast-550-p.asp

Thanks.  I have a Les Paul here with A5 magnets.  Was thinking about swapping the magnet in the bridge pickup for an A3 or an A4 to see what it does.  A5 in the bridge is a tad harsh at times.

A5 is a tad aggressive, I agree. Since having BKP Mules in my Les Paul I came to the conclusion that A4’s are the ones for me.

Rob

normula1

And I recently realised I like an A2 in the bridge and an A5 in the neck at least in lower output pickups.

bodhi

I have 3 Les Pauls, all with PAF-alike-ish pickups.

The first has A2 magnets, the second A3 magnets, and the third A5 magnets.

I think the guitar with the A3 magnets sound the best with my amp.  But the A5 neck pickup is fine. I might try A2, A3 and A4 in that guitar's bridge pickup just for shits and giggles.  If I don't manage to screw up the magnet swap and break it...

Ossyrocks

bodhi said:

I have 3 Les Pauls, all with PAF-alike-ish pickups.

The first has A2 magnets, the second A3 magnets, and the third A5 magnets.

I think the guitar with the A3 magnets sound the best with my amp.  But the A5 neck pickup is fine. I might try A2, A3 and A4 in that guitar's bridge pickup just for shits and giggles.  If I don't manage to screw up the magnet swap and break it...

It’s fairly straightforward. Plenty of YouTube vids out there to watch in preparation. The magnet orientation is key, make sure it goes in the right way around.

Rob

stickyfiddle

I'm another who finds A2 a bit lifeless in humbuckers. I have a CS336 with A2 57 Classics and an SG with Alinco3 57s and had A2 PAF-types in there before that. Obviously its hard to compare pickups in different guitars, but the alnico 3's are brilliant. I've never had anything alnico 4, so I'm about to grab a set of those from OX4 for the CS336. 

bodhi

stickyfiddle said:

I'm another who finds A2 a bit lifeless in humbuckers. 

I've found that with Gibson pickups.  But I have a set of Wolfetone Legends in one of my guitars, and as far as I know they have A2 magnets.  To my ear they are very clear and sweet sounding - not flubby and lacklustre like some A2 pickups I've had.

bodhi

Ossyrocks said:

bodhi said:

I have 3 Les Pauls, all with PAF-alike-ish pickups.

The first has A2 magnets, the second A3 magnets, and the third A5 magnets.

I think the guitar with the A3 magnets sound the best with my amp.  But the A5 neck pickup is fine. I might try A2, A3 and A4 in that guitar's bridge pickup just for shits and giggles.  If I don't manage to screw up the magnet swap and break it...

It’s fairly straightforward. Plenty of YouTube vids out there to watch in preparation. The magnet orientation is key, make sure it goes in the right way around.

Rob

I have watched some of those in the past.  Will have to revisit, but as far as I remember it was unscrewing the pole pieces, then a couple of base plate screws, and just slide out the magnet, taking note of polarity.  It didn't seem massively complicated, hence I'll probably make a mess of it.

Will try and record before and after sound clips for what they might be worth, if and when I get round to it.

MartinB

I've played around a little with magnet swaps (also from Cermag) in a cheap pair of Vanson 57 humbuckers.  I liked the stock A2 in the bridge but wanted to clear up the neck pickup.  An A5 in the neck gave me more highs and lows (or less middly) but needed the pickup to be set quite low to balance with the A2 bridge.  I've got an A3 in the neck currently, which is clear but mellow and seems less mushy in the bass than A2.  I haven't tried an A4, but I think I've got things about where I want them for the moment.  

RiftAmps

Uneducated Thought: As different magnet grades clearly affect the resulting tone, does a pickup designer then choose a wire gauge/coating/number-of-turns to further refine the sound? Or does it work the other way around..."I'm using this specification wind, therefore I'll need to use this magnet to make it work as intended"?

I suspect it's the former?

With regards to your Antiquities @Ossyrocks, I assume that SD wound the bobbins to work with the de-sensitized A2 magnets, so by installing full-strength A4s, is the wind no longer optimal? Would the pickup then need a rewind to bring out the best in the A4s?

Because of this, can anyone really just say "I prefer the sound of A3s", where really it should be "I prefer the sound of A3s when matched with this exact wind in my pickups, in this guitar, with these strings, into this amp"?

Despite going over every detail of a guitar amplifier to understand how different aspects change the sound, I've always deliberately starved myself of pickup knowledge, preferring to simply go by what I prefer the sound of. I hate BK Mules but love Monty's PAFs. Are they the same specs? Probably. Do they sound the same? Nowhere close.

I suspect it's far more complex than the basics that I'm boiling it down to, but the verbal diarrhoea has now flowed.

bodhi

Yep, I agree - it's probably way more complicated than just swapping the magnets.

But it appears to be a relatively cheap, simple, and harmless mod.  So why not?  If you think the result is "better" than whatever you had before, then perhaps that's good enough.

Alegree

Don't forget that the method of magnetism transportation to the string is just as important to the magnetic field that the magnet produces. Pole screws can be tweaked for further refinement.

springhead

Very interesting Rob, something I've thought of doing but not attempted yet.


Jules

jumping@shadows

@Ossyrocks Sounds good to me, and now I want a Gartone! 

Ossyrocks

jumping@shadows said:

@Ossyrocks Sounds good to me, and now I want a Gartone! 

Yuuki, Cheers, I’m glad you suggested this, it was certainly cheaper than taking a punt on new pickups! The Gartone 5E3 is indeed the mutts nuts, I have two!

One sold on eBay a couple of weeks ago for £1000, but they don’t seem to come up often.

Rob

jumping@shadows

@Ossyrocks I do love a cheap fix  The Gartone sounds fabulous, but I’m wondering what I’d be getting over any other 5E3 kit/clone, and just shy of £2k will buy me a tatty ‘50s example with some perseverance- topic for another thread I guess ;-)