Yet more new PRS for 2018.

robbie

There have been some startling revelations of late. It escapes me who said it (it may have been Paul, himself in the winter namm press call), however, someone admitted to the 594 being half of PRS core’ sales. But then again, its a hell of a thing.

Whitecat

robbie said:

There have been some startling revelations of late. It escapes me who said it (it may have been Paul, himself in the winter namm press call), however, someone admitted to the 594 being half of PRS core’ sales. But then again, its a hell of a thing.

I can absolutely believe that. You don't see them hang about on dealer pegs very long. When I have been in guitar shops in 2017 I'm pretty sure someone was always trying one out no matter where it was.

One wonders where they take it from there...

andyoz

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

Stuff goes in cycles of course.

Acoustic guitar sales are the real growth area - the grant I mentioned PRS receiving above was meant to go towards building "an affordable US acoustic model" - it was a 3-year plan, which makes spring 2018 the end of that timeline. Will we see something announced at NAMM? If it's being pushed back is there a chance they will miss out on most of that growth?

Gibson have always had a good market for electric and acoustic based guitars - maybe because of the long heritage of the company and coming from an acoustic based business and later adding electrics to the line - Fender have never been successful with acoustic sales, hence one of the reasons to buy Guild a few years ago - And PRS have struggled to have any impact with their USA and SE based acoustic/electro models - Like wise Martin and Taylor have both struggled to enter the electric guitar market - It appears you are known for one market so don't try something else

Good point. Out of any manufacturer only a Gibson electric and acoustic look cool side by side IMO

robbie

“One wonders where they take it from there...”
Good question. Intrigued by what theyve done with the 24/08. Sorry I missed the blue jean one, up earlier

Strat54

Still wondering why the delay in releasing the Mayer Str(PRS)atocaster.....you'd think they'd be keen to get it out and strike whilst there is interest in both the guitar and JM. I can only guess that Paul is still trying to fathom out the single coil concept....

Whitecat

Strat54 said:

Still wondering why the delay in releasing the Mayer Str(PRS)atocaster.....you'd think they'd be keen to get it out and strike whilst there is interest in both the guitar and JM. I can only guess that Paul is still trying to fathom out the single coil concept....

I've heard that the factory is both short-staffed and heavily backordered as a result... perhaps adding a bolt-on to the mix just isn't commercially viable at the moment if they have to make hundreds of them...

Musicman20

Whitecat said:

Strat54 said:

Still wondering why the delay in releasing the Mayer Str(PRS)atocaster.....you'd think they'd be keen to get it out and strike whilst there is interest in both the guitar and JM. I can only guess that Paul is still trying to fathom out the single coil concept....

I've heard that the factory is both short-staffed and heavily backordered as a result... perhaps adding a bolt-on to the mix just isn't commercially viable at the moment if they have to make hundreds of them...

Something they definitely cannot complain about!

Whitecat

Musicman20 said:

Whitecat said:

Strat54 said:

Still wondering why the delay in releasing the Mayer Str(PRS)atocaster.....you'd think they'd be keen to get it out and strike whilst there is interest in both the guitar and JM. I can only guess that Paul is still trying to fathom out the single coil concept....

I've heard that the factory is both short-staffed and heavily backordered as a result... perhaps adding a bolt-on to the mix just isn't commercially viable at the moment if they have to make hundreds of them...

Something they definitely cannot complain about!

Well, the way I heard it is that they can't afford to hire to capacity at the moment... so it's kinda win/lose I guess... lots of orders but cashflow maybe not excellent? Dunno. It's hearsay anyway!

Strat54

I guess they did lay off staff a few years back, so it might be true. 

Musicman20

Is there truth in the info that the SE line is a huge part of their business/profit?

Whitecat

Musicman20 said:

Is there truth in the info that the SE line is a huge part of their business/profit?

Yes. Doubtful they would still exist now if it weren't for that. Not at the size they are anyway!

Strat54

Yes the SE line saved their asses. It was a do or die...a ;last resort. 

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

robbie said:

There have been some startling revelations of late. It escapes me who said it (it may have been Paul, himself in the winter namm press call), however, someone admitted to the 594 being half of PRS core’ sales. But then again, its a hell of a thing.

I can absolutely believe that. You don't see them hang about on dealer pegs very long. When I have been in guitar shops in 2017 I'm pretty sure someone was always trying one out no matter where it was.

One wonders where they take it from there...

I did here that from PRS a few months ago - think it was in relation to USA hardcore models and not PRS as a total figure - so exclude S2 and SE

Jez6345789

“One wonders where they take it from there...”
I think there is plenty left to grab in the market as Fender and Gibson slowly get their market share eroded by the competition.
The success of the 594 has largely been at the expense of the  Gibson reissue market. With Suhr now moving in as well Gibson I think will find a former big cash crop in R8/R9 been nibbled away. 

Iam sure some of the stuff here about expanding production and staffing is true PRS are a skilled and semi skllled workforce and those skills and increased manning come at a time and money cost to meet increased production.

As for the Mayer guitar, I think PRS have played in the Strat Market a couple of times and come up dry despite the guitars being good. I think they need the equivalent of a 594 Strat that shoots for the old wolf in a modern package. I also think the approach with Mayer has been to let him be his own man rather than the Fender corporate approach here is your guitar with these pickups etc etc. I think they are throwing variations at Mayer and seeing what sticks, take on board his comments and roll again. 

Nothing wrong with Fenders I have played but how long can you feed a market purely on Nostalgia. Gibson QA issues aside can't really find a modern narrative. A youngster these days is not going to covet the guitar of his great grandad. With Suhr and PRS out competing them on the perception of quality at similar price points, both companies need to rethink doing another rehash of the past. 

Gibson has the answer to revamping their line in Valley Arts if I had the money I would buy that brand in a heartbeat.
It sits in the portfolio of Gibson brands occasionally being stuck on custom Nashville Teles with lots of gold and birds eye maple. 

So in my mind Bring back  Valley Arts
Spin it off as an independent division with a talented team of hungry young enthusiastic builders.
reissue the Custom/Standard Pro it gets you back legitimately into the Strat/Super Strat Market then pivot from that into the type of guitars young guys want  7 Strings, Metal machines again get a price friendly range produced in ASIA that competes with Ibanez/Esp etc. Get some new and up and coming artists. Keep the Gibson button downs and sports jacket brigade away from it. 

If you do it right you have none of the Gibson quality stigmas it is a brand that would work well to evolve into that more modern space. Its currently a market segment where as far as I know Gibson does not even have a hamster in the race.

But hey what do I know  I love running the world from my armchair. LOL

grungebob

If you watch the prs Namm video Paul said they did $50million in business last year their best yet and a milestone they didn’t think they’d reach. Now granted we don’t now the % margin on that revenue but it would imply a good cash flow for the business. 

robbie

“@@Strat54 ;

Still wondering why the delay in releasing the Mayer Str(PRS)atocaster.....you'd think they'd be keen to get it out and strike whilst there is interest in both the guitar and JM. I can only guess that Paul is still trying to fathom out the single coil concept....”

Now that made me laugh and have a lol. That primarily explains my interest in the 24/08.  Looking for a single coil option and (sotto voce), am not hugely taken with strats

Strat54

grungebob said:

If you watch the prs Namm video Paul said they did $50million in business last year their best yet and a milestone they didn’t think they’d reach. Now granted we don’t now the % margin on that revenue but it would imply a good cash flow for the business. 

That equates to about a $3M net profit in guitar manufacturing.

grungebob

Strat54 said:

grungebob said:

If you watch the prs Namm video Paul said they did $50million in business last year their best yet and a milestone they didn’t think they’d reach. Now granted we don’t now the % margin on that revenue but it would imply a good cash flow for the business. 

That equates to about a $3M net profit in guitar manufacturing.

Is that a guess or do you have insight?  6% profit margin seems very small, I would have thought they’d be operating at around 10-15%. 

Whitecat

@Strat54’s figure is net, and it sounds fairly accurate to me. 10-15 would be gross, and I think 15 would be on the high side. They don’t always crack double digits. 

grungebob

No I understand but I guessed Paul was talking total turnover so I was thinking gross profits as we don’t know investor paybacks etc which would give us the net.