Squier / Fender , Epi / Gibson?

robgilmo

Surely, if you take say a Squier and a Fender, same model, say a Strat, set them up properly, keeping the spec as much the same as possible the only difference in how they both sound will be the pick ups? And there should be no difference between the two as far as playability goes, if they are both set up exactly the same?

I'm sure this is an old subject but I am curious to hear what people think about this.

I don't believe in ''mojo'' or one guitar sounds better than another simply because it does, unless its a placebo which is a very real thing, and nothing wrong with a placebo. For instance, a relic guitar wont sound better than a none relic guitar but the placebo of playing one , the feel good thing may make the musician enjoy playing it more and this may reflect on the musician being a better musician?

stickyfiddle

They won't sound exactly the same, but then two different US Strats won't sound exactly the same.  And that's not to say the cheaper guitar won't be the better sounding instrument. 

FWIW CS Relics do usually sound better than cheaper strats, but that goes far deeper than the finish into wood choice (neck & body, number of pieces in the body, etc), quality of hardware, setup etc. 

richardhomer

Is this another thinly veiled ‘Woods make no difference to the sound of an electric guitar’ thread?

If it is, I might take another break from the forum....

WezV

To keep the spec the same you will also need to upgrade all the parts.  Start with bridge, tuners and nut.


change every bit, spend some time on advanced fretwork and setup and yeah, you can get them pretty close.  My epiphone was there when it had bulldog PAFs in it... never felt like a Gibson though.  To get feel right I would have to refinish.  If I was doing that I would plug the bridge holes so I could change to the traditional type of bridge

I can take a mid range guitar, change every part, refinish and I will have a guitar that sounds and feels like a Gibson.... for the price of a Gibson

dazzajl

I think if you take two guitars and keep them as similar as possible, theyll be similar in the way they play and feel. If you take two guitars and keep them as identical as possible, they’ll be similar in the way they feel and play. 

One of the beautif things about guitars is the way they all have a slightly unique personality. 

Mortland

Obviously a lot of the comments above deal wth the sound, one main difference I would note is the build quality! A US made Gibson, in 99% of cases will be more solid than a Chinese Epiphone.

Furthermore, I wouldn’t talk about the cheaper vs more expensive brands on the assumption both have very different sound and parts quality levels, a top end Epiphone will in most case matches up to, or out perform, a low end Gibson. 

WezV

Mortland said:

Furthermore, I wouldn’t talk about the cheaper vs more expensive brands on the assumption both have very different sound and parts quality levels, a top end Epiphone will in most case matches up to, or out perform, a low end Gibson. 

Indeed.  Both brands produce a range of quality.  

Take a load of epis and a load of Gibson’s and there will already be a bit of cross over between the two ranges.  Upgrading will help increase that at a cost.  

You still won’t be able to take the lowest epi and upgrade it to beat the best Gibson.... 

stickyfiddle

As an aside, my own cheapie parts-build Strat stands up well against CS stuff. It's not quite as good, but it's actually very close. Obviously it doesn't have a nitro finish, but aside from that, it plays and sounds brilliant. But that's after literally 17 years of modding and fettling and learning what works and what doesn't.  Not to mention a few hundred quid's worth of parts  

robgilmo

Ah I see, so body construcyion and materials and even finish contribute to the sound of a guitar, that makes sense, but what about plauability? People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

robgilmo

Using my phone, sorry for spelling, my thumb is way too big for the keypad.

WezV

Some will tell you finish contributes to the sound, but that’s not what we said above.

dont discount “feel”, when talking about playability.

darthed1981

robgilmo said:

Ah I see, so body construcyion and materials and even finish contribute to the sound of a guitar, that makes sense, but what about plauability? People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

No two items made of wood will ever be exactly the same.

They can be very similar indeed however.

There are other things about Squiers and Epis, Fenders and Gibsons besides actual overall suitability as musical instruments.

Squier have very thin necks, which renders them very easy to play for some people.

Epis often have a thin-ish D-profile neck, which can be a bit marmite.

Gibsons and Fenders go the whole shebang from tree trunk to modern tapered styles.

The neck and the ability to set it up properly make a huge difference to playability.  If I ever get to the stage I can pick up any guitar, just play it without worrying about the profile and worry about minor differences in tone, then I'll be a happy man!

robgilmo

stickyfiddle said:

As an aside, my own cheapie parts-build Strat stands up well against CS stuff. It's not quite as good, but it's actually very close. Obviously it doesn't have a nitro finish, but aside from that, it plays and sounds brilliant. But that's after literally 17 years of modding and fettling and learning what works and what doesn't.  Not to mention a few hundred quid's worth of parts  

I was just thinking that, was it possible to build a high end or expensive guitar that performed the same as the guitar you copy?

WezV

robgilmo said:

 People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

It’s down to all the variables that make a guitar.  Even ignoring wood, every part will have a manufacturing tolerance that introduces subtle differences.

Not sure if your just trolling at this point though. Apologies if not.  Go play some similar guitars and see if they are as identical as they look

robgilmo

darthed1981 said:

robgilmo said:

Ah I see, so body construcyion and materials and even finish contribute to the sound of a guitar, that makes sense, but what about plauability? People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

No two items made of wood will ever be exactly the same.

They can be very similar indeed however.

There are other things about Squiers and Epis, Fenders and Gibsons besides actual overall suitability as musical instruments.

Squier have very thin necks, which renders them very easy to play for some people.

Epis often have a thin-ish D-profile neck, which can be a bit marmite.

Gibsons and Fenders go the whole shebang from tree trunk to modern tapered styles.

The neck and the ability to set it up properly make a huge difference to playability.  If I ever get to the stage I can pick up any guitar, just play it without worrying about the profile and worry about minor differences in tone, then I'll be a happy man!

My Squier standard tele doesnt have a perticularly thin neck, but then again ive never compared it to anything other than my korean epi, which seems much thinner.

robgilmo

WezV said:

Some will tell you finish contributes to the sound, but that’s not what we said above.

dont discount “feel”, when talking about playability.

Thats what I want to nail, what makes a guitar feel right, neck profile? But two identical guitars but only one feels right, there must be something there.

WezV

robgilmo said:

darthed1981 said:

robgilmo said:

Ah I see, so body construcyion and materials and even finish contribute to the sound of a guitar, that makes sense, but what about plauability? People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

No two items made of wood will ever be exactly the same.

They can be very similar indeed however.

There are other things about Squiers and Epis, Fenders and Gibsons besides actual overall suitability as musical instruments.

Squier have very thin necks, which renders them very easy to play for some people.

Epis often have a thin-ish D-profile neck, which can be a bit marmite.

Gibsons and Fenders go the whole shebang from tree trunk to modern tapered styles.

The neck and the ability to set it up properly make a huge difference to playability.  If I ever get to the stage I can pick up any guitar, just play it without worrying about the profile and worry about minor differences in tone, then I'll be a happy man!

My Squier standard tele doesnt have a perticularly thin neck, but then again ive never compared it to anything other than my korean epi, which seems much thinner.

Are you considering if it’s worth upgrading them?  It probably is since you already have them.  

Buying them specifically to upgrade doesn’t make as much sense unless it’s carefully planned out before hand 

robgilmo

WezV said:

robgilmo said:

 People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

It’s down to all the variables that make a guitar.  Even ignoring wood, every part will have a manufacturing tolerance that introduces subtle differences.

Not sure if your just trolling at this point though. Apologies if not.  Go play some similar guitars and see if they are as identical as they look

No mate, not trolling, just inexperienced and curious, not a good combination I guess.

WezV

robgilmo said:

WezV said:

Some will tell you finish contributes to the sound, but that’s not what we said above.

dont discount “feel”, when talking about playability.

Thats what I want to nail, what makes a guitar feel right, neck profile? But two identical guitars but only one feels right, there must be something there.

Take a squier.  

One key element in its resonance is the neck join.    The neck join is 4 bolts, manually tightened.  

one key element in its playability will be neck shape.  Bare in mind 20mm is a skinny neck, 23mm is a fat neck. Small differences make a massive difference in feel. Small differences will occur in the manufacturing process - variance is allowed

robgilmo

WezV said:

robgilmo said:

darthed1981 said:

robgilmo said:

Ah I see, so body construcyion and materials and even finish contribute to the sound of a guitar, that makes sense, but what about plauability? People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

No two items made of wood will ever be exactly the same.

They can be very similar indeed however.

There are other things about Squiers and Epis, Fenders and Gibsons besides actual overall suitability as musical instruments.

Squier have very thin necks, which renders them very easy to play for some people.

Epis often have a thin-ish D-profile neck, which can be a bit marmite.

Gibsons and Fenders go the whole shebang from tree trunk to modern tapered styles.

The neck and the ability to set it up properly make a huge difference to playability.  If I ever get to the stage I can pick up any guitar, just play it without worrying about the profile and worry about minor differences in tone, then I'll be a happy man!

My Squier standard tele doesnt have a perticularly thin neck, but then again ive never compared it to anything other than my korean epi, which seems much thinner.

Are you considering if it’s worth upgrading them?  It probably is since you already have them.  

Buying them specifically to upgrade doesn’t make as much sense unless it’s carefully planned out before hand 

No not really, I bought them because the Tele was the best I could afford at the time and the epi popped up at a local auction six months later and I had some cash to spare, the epi plays lovely , the neck feels right for me,and the tele feels bigger which I like and it makes tele noises, so my perfect guitar at this moment in time seems to be spread across the two.

WezV

robgilmo said:

WezV said:

robgilmo said:

 People say as above two identical fenders for instance wont play the same, this I dont understand, is it down to how they are set up?

It’s down to all the variables that make a guitar.  Even ignoring wood, every part will have a manufacturing tolerance that introduces subtle differences.

Not sure if your just trolling at this point though. Apologies if not.  Go play some similar guitars and see if they are as identical as they look

No mate, not trolling, just inexperienced and curious, not a good combination I guess.

I just assumed you had been here long enough to see similarly themed threads get a bit ridiculous.

  I think it’s worthy of discuss though, but expect some knickers to be twisting as we speak