What's the Point of Reading Music

thegummy

Incidentally, does anyone know a good resource for guitar sheet music? Or rock music in general?

I've never been able to use tabs properly, I was searching for bass tabs the other day but couldn't tell which notes were in which bars.

I'd probably say midi files were the better alternative, though not so easily available.

Santona1937

 Reading music allows you to look at any piece of music work out what swpeed it shoulod be played at and the realtionship between each of the notes/ phrases. It is not a requirement as TABs can do most of the work for you, but  it certainly helps. someone who can play well and read music well can  go over a piece once and be able to play it very well the first time, in time and without reference to other players. For a band,  who perhaps need to learn a song quickly, that can be a godsend.

Phil_aka_Pip

siraxeman said:

One plus for TAB at least if its good accurate TAB is it gives you the fingering or the actual postion of the notes on the freboard to get the correct sound. ... And whats the symbol in notation for a pic scrape? Or bouncing the pic on the G string over the pickup to get a mousey type sound ? Or a whammy bar divebomb ? Usually it needs some plain English instruction written underneath to make sense of such tricks.....

You're supposed to know what fingerings are available and choose one. If a specific position is required the notation can tell you. There's nothing that tab can tell you that notation can't, there's plenty that notation can tell you that tab can't.

There are symbols for techniques specific to the electric guitar.

Sassafras

I find it a damn sight easier than trying to read TAB.

Teetonetal

Paul_C said:

If your ambition to play includes situations where knowing how to sight read is the difference between getting a job and not, then yes.

If it only goes as far as playing at home, or being in a band with some mates, probably not.

Exactly why I learnt. Required for a cruise ship gig I wanted.

Personally I've found reading rhythm usefull. Notes not so much. I got really good at sight reading but really a basic knowledge to help with theory will suffice. It's not a skill I get much use out of.

Ear trsining on the other hand... priceless. 

Teetonetal

pia98jf said:

stickyfiddle said:

What's the point in learning to read & write French?

It lets you communicate with other people who can read and write French, particularly when you're not necessarily in the same room. You can even communicate with large groups simultaneously. 

It's not required to be able to order a beer and a baguette on holiday, but it'll help you a huge amount if you decide to go and live there.

Agreed, although to continue your analogy in most situation you will still get by perfectly fine with English (tab).

On the other hand spending time and effort to learn French when you don't know any french people or ho there on holiday and didnt need it for work is probably a waste of effort. Though of course it may help unexpectedly at a later date.

adamm82

thegummy said:

To avoid derailing the Xmas gift thread, what are the benefits of a guitarist learning to read sheet music?

When I used to play keyboard I started to learn but then decided it was pointless unless I wanted to play complex pieces and there was no YouTube tutorial.

With guitar, is there any benefit?

I might learn as usually one of the questions people ask once finding out I play guitar. 

guitars4you

Many many factors come into play - Add to that, many of our guitar hero's have acquired great ability without needing to read - Maybe they wrote their own songs - maybe they have a great ear to pick up the melody etc without having to read it - Maybe they are improvisational players, like say Wes Montgomery and play around a tune which they've learnt by ear - maybe they just play blues and as such can manage to acquire enough ability to just work the pentatonic boxes and not step out of that

But in certain situations it will almost be a must that you can read - I don't think it will do you any harm to be able to read as well as use tab and/or learn by ear but as to you needing to do it, then I suppose each to their own - But if you are not going to use it then why bother

Both my Dad and Granddad were both pro for many years - Both saxophone and clarinet - More so my Granddad, but in the 30's, 40's and 50's, most of his work would be gigs for dances - Often dinner music first, followed by various dancing after - Often in a 6-10 piece band - many times the band would be put together a few days before hand or that night - the band leader would get the gig, then book the various band members - You might know some or all the band - But no rehearsal, no advance info about the set - it was ALL READ on the night - And if you couldn't do it you wouldn't get any more work - admittedly it was tunes that were played by the book with no improvisation

I learnt to play guitar by reading - I can still read but I'm rarely ring rusty today - I'd say I've tried to improve my playing by ear and as @Teetonetal states, playing by era is priceless

Alnico

guitars4you said:

......I learnt to play guitar by reading - I can still read but I'm rarely ring rusty today - I'd say I've tried to improve my playing by ear and as @Teetonetal states, playing by era is priceless

So is Autocorrect.

DulcetJones

I learned a long time ago, glad I did.  I got gigs playing the "pit" at live plays, I eventually sat for an RCM exam in classical guitar which gave me more credentials for teaching jobs and made it easier to communicate with other musicians in general, even non readers.

Musicman20

I started to learn the basics for GCSE music and my bass grades, but I stopped after that. I did well at the GCSE because I wrote fun punk songs! Not for my theory.

I find theory dull. I've never once been in a band situation where I have needed it. My work is pretty damn complex and strict, so I don't apply the same to music, which is my other side of life.

I just write and use my brain to put things together. Sounds good? Then that is right.

Just to confirm, I virtually always play in bands writing their own music. So it's kinda different. If I want to learn someone else's music, I just learn by ear.

aord43

TheBigDipper said:

enjo said:

I'm learning fiddle and re-learning notation at the same time. Even though you can get tabs for violin it didn't seem right... It never bothered me for guitar.

When this thread started, I didn't believe such a thing existed. Just found a website where they use "fret numbers" for violin tab and suggests players stick strips of tape onto their fingerboards where the "frets" should go. 

I told my neighbour (a very good cellist) and she just laughed... 

I learned cello in school a very long time ago, and really don't remember how I knew where to put my fingers!  Only did it for a couple of years though.

impmann

I've not found any communication issues with not learning to read manuscript. Then again, I've not wanted a job on a cruise ship or in an orchestra pit - so its probably not relevant to my musical journey.

I guess I'm lucky that I can pick stuff up really quickly and somehow remember how to play songs for years without playing them in between.

I'm not 'proud' of not reading music and being self taught in all this - but equally I don't find it a hinderance for what I do. I've played with a lot of guys who really know their theory etc and aside from a few ego-merchants who like to look down upon "lesser" players, I've not really had a problem.

I guess the argument is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

aord43

I learned how standard notation works a long time ago, and I understand it without being able to properly "read music".  I am pleased I do because it makes it possible to get the rhythm without hearing it.  That's the main advantage for guitarists that I see.  I can't quite do that in real-time nor can I sight-read the notes, although I do know what notes are in which lines and spaces!  I guess it wouldn't take too long if I put my mind to it. Although it's a bit more complex than a piano because you have to choose which A on the fretboard to play for an A on the notation, for example, and I am not sure what the approach is there.  I guess knowing which key it's in will help there (aside: that's another mystery to me, the key signatures in the notation, why can't they just write "in A" or something.  I can recognise C Major though ).

Phil_aka_Pip

@aord43 The key signatures thing is a good question. I think it is because there are scales that don't fit our Diatonic key system and the notation is flexible enough to allow itself to be used for other purposes. If you said "It's in A" you would be quite right in implying 3 sharps (F#, C#, and G#), whereas if you write 3 sharps for the key signature you imply the key of A major (or its relative minor, F#) and the use of diatonic scales. Most classical people would expect you to use the A major key signature for anything rooted on A or F# plus accidentals for any notes that aren't in the set {A,B,C#,D,E,F#,G#}, and would say it's against the rules to write a key signature that mixes sharps and flats, but IMO "against the rules" doesn't mean the notation is incapable of being used in any other way. Suppose you decided (rightly, wrongly, possibly both) that you wanted a piece of music in which the notes used were all from the A major scale except the Es which would be Eb. It would sound weird, but hey, if that's what you want ... You could either notate the usual A maj key sig, and then put a b before every occurrence of E, or you could "break the rules" and use the Amaj key sig but add an Eb to it. Completely non-standard usage of the notation, but it's only the rules not the notation that doesn't let you do it.

Natch, the other side of it is that there are people who don't know that A or F#- are 3 sharps let alone which sharps they are, so they need to be told

jeztone2

As an aside, is it not the case then that no one has ever put together a decent music notation tutorial for guitarists? One that's accessible? Is that the problem?

My wife reads music, but thinks she's not a natural musician, compared to myself. 

DLM

thegummy said:

Incidentally, does anyone know a good resource for guitar sheet music? Or rock music in general?

I've never been able to use tabs properly, I was searching for bass tabs the other day but couldn't tell which notes were in which bars.

I'd probably say midi files were the better alternative, though not so easily available.

Sheet music as in paper? Lots of the "classic" tab stuff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_Lane_Music

Sheet music on your computer (which you can [and probably should] print out):

Download TuxGuitar and Power Tab Editor (both free). Or GuitarPro if you want to spend money/get more features.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TuxGuitar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Tab_Editor

Got to https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/ and http://www.911tabs.com/ to trawl for "tabs". If the formats offered include GuitarPro or PowerTab files, you'll get the notation too. And the MIDI.

The quality of all transcriptions will vary wildly. Yes, even in the "official" album score books. On the other hand, there's some really cool stuff out there in the user-generated realm, like big band and film scores painstakingly put into these formats. I once found whole Michael Jackson arrangements in GuitarPro format that were very nicely done. Like that horn or keyboard part? Play it on guitar!

If you *really* can't find transcriptions of what you want to play, you can make your own using software like "Transcribe!" https://www.seventhstring.com/ or other slow-down/looping software (Amazing Slowdowner/Audacity[for real cheapskates], etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcription_(music)

DLM

Musicman20 said:

I've never once been in a band situation where I have needed it.

With the greatest of respect, I'm afraid that is almost an impossibility, seeing as you are clearly literate.

As soon as you name a note A-G, that's theory.

Ravenous

aord43 said:

...Although it's a bit more complex than a piano because you have to choose which A on the fretboard to play for an A on the notation, for example, and I am not sure what the approach is there.

For music specifically written for classical guitar, there are often roman numerals above the stave, sometimes for each bar, telling you the "position". That is, the fret number where your hand can be (your thumb & index finger, usually) for that bar.

That usually gives you a recommended starting point to put your hand there and work the fingers out for yourself.

Of course a lot of writers don't bother giving that information, a guitar player will be able to work it out for themselves, and hand position can be a part of forming your own interpretation anyway (using the different "sound" of each string).

Ravenous

jeztone2 said:

As an aside, is it not the case then that no one has ever put together a decent music notation tutorial for guitarists? One that's accessible? Is that the problem?

This exists. There are a good few books.  (I got most of my reading from Herfurth's books, also Noad's book on solo guitar was always highly recommended though I never had that one.)

On the other hand most of the stuff on the internet is free, and worth every penny in my opinion.

By the way it also depends what "Accessible" means. It's assumed people are serious and prepared to put in the work.  I'm no Julian Bream but I did put some time into this reading lark - but I'd advise people finding it too hard not to bother and stick to tab or youtube.  It's supposed to be a hobby after all.