Live Gigging - Overdrive / Distortion Pedal setting up, types used

Fenderman53

Maybe I'm chasing my tail with this ...
Been gigging (clubs mostly) for 10yrs +. Used a variety of amps playing covers from the 50s to a few of today's hits. No real heavy stuff though, think maybe the distortion/overdrive found on some of Bryan Adams tunes.
Currently using an Award Session 45 amp with a mini pedal board featuring 13 assorted pedals to cover most effect types.
For overdrive / distortion currently have an Ibenez Mini TS and Mooer Ultra Drive (Boss DS1 in miniature). Over the years I have tried the EHX Soul Food, Boss Blues Driver, Mooer Blues Crab, Ultimate Drive, Black Secret, Big & Little Muff and a few more!!!
Now all these pedals can sound pretty sweet 'in-the-bedroom' busking BUT my problem/Issues arise in a live gigging setting.
Our typical audiences, (not to mention fellow band members), don't wish to hear me playing at 'Whitesnake' or similar decibel levels. So how to get a good sound at modest levels and without feedback too, given the limited stage space between amp and guitar. The old chestnut of what sounds good at home alone, either sounds pants on stage or totally disappears in the mix. (Yes, I tried and still use a comp and a eq pedal too). Thanx for any practical advice.

siraxeman

I'm not sure I get you...the pedals you list all should easily get you a good tone, I usually stack 2 ODs for a solo and use 1 for my rhythm tone and it works perfectly - the 2nd OD will give extra gain (as much as I'd ever need) and more importantly the volume boost I need to get the solo heard easily over the top of the band. Only thing that comes to mind reading your post is maybe get a nice smallish valve amp....they usually just sound better at gig volumes rather than worse. That said the Award Session amps always had a great reputation so whilst having never tried them I'm stumped as why getting a good sound is hard to do - its painfully easy with the pedal you list and any half decent valve amp. Perhaps get yourself a industry standard amp like a Fender HRD or Blues Deluxe...or cheaper a used Laney VC30. But really the worlds your oyster for smallish valve amps - there's tons out there that will work just great with pedals even if you don't need or want a 2nd channel.

Get a valve amp. IF that don't do it, try bass!!!

ICBM

Mesa V-Twin.

For whatever reason, having a valve in the signal path really does seem to put back that naturally responsive compression (not the same as a pedal compressor) and 'sitting right in the mix' character that valve amps have and solid-state pedals and amps seem to struggle with. I wish it wasn't so, but it does just seem to be how it is...

It's huge, heavy, expensive and needs its own special power supply - and has an annoying issue with a drop-out delay when switching between bypass and either of the 'on' modes (although not between the 'on' modes) - but it will definitely fix this problem. I used it for years as my 'into any provided solid-state amp' pedal for small gigs and it always worked brilliantly, also great with another fuzz or distortion pedal in front of it.

There are three 'on' modes - clean, blues and solo - of which you can use two at once. For your purposes, set it to 'blues to solo' with the switch on the bottom so you can footswitch between clean and blues, not solo which is very high gain. It's also less 'Mesa' sounding than you would expect in the clean and blues modes and actually sounds more like a Fender and a Marshall.

Fenderman53

Mmm ... OK maybe a bit more info/background.
I've used (and still own) numerous valve amps including Fender Hot Rod & DR Z. I haven't the luxury of roadies (or huge biceps) so the light weight amp I use is small. Easily portable whilst being just sufficiently loud/clean headroom to keep up with an acoustic drummer who doesn't thump like John Bonham or Keith Moon! I'm after a tasteful, (I know it's subjective!), overdrive/distortion. Nothing too heavy, no bees-in-a-bottle or death metal thrash tones. And no feedback when forced to stand fairly close to the amp due tight stage space. Impossible????

siraxeman

Fender HRD isn't 'heavy'...no idea about the Dr Z but if you don't wanna use those or they don't solve the problem I'm flummoxed as to a solution. You own those amps and gig a lil tranny?   Shame on you!

Aha, I know - get a sack trolley! That will reduce the humpage of that heavyweight beast that is the Fender HRD...or just man up? I have a sack trolley but tend not to use it much, but my amps are always 2x12s.And its only if the car park is quite away from the stage and usually when I'm using 2 2x12's! Have to admit I'd be a bit embarrassed if I wheeled in a 1x12 combo on a sack trolley though. Well, apart from some old Mesa 1x12 I was asked to try and lift off the ground in a music store some years ago (I'm sure it was made of lead/cast iron and bolted to the floor ) 1x12's rarely are 'that' heavy.

..edit - you're male I gather with the username?

Fenderman53

Siraxeman sounds like you're either younger, fitter AND don't suffer medical conditions. Many of my fellow gtr playing associates are in a very similar position to me and are physically/medically prevented from lifting much weight BUT they still enjoy and wish to continue playing as long as they are able!

welshboyo

The problem you have is "volume" - let me explain a little more...

"Sounds nice In the Bedroom" to me means that you are not giving the OD pedals enough welly - at Bedroom levels your sounds are probably nice and levelled out, however, at volume you will find that your clean sounds will jump out more and you therefore need more volume on your drives to get them to cut through in a live setting - my settings at home are somewhat misbalanced, but at gig volume they make sense.

I also think that the OD's you are using are more suited to already crunchy valve amps  - a TS into a clean SS amp will sound horrible as you will get some clean bleed in your signal and the mid hump a TS inherently produces will just add to the nasaliness  - however, a TS into an already cooking valve amp is a thing of glory.

Does the Award have a gain channel? - wondering if you could use that at a very moderate gain setting and then use the TS on top to get the sound you are after? and don't be afraid to use your guitar volumes either.

Also, what guitars are you using?

Fenderman53

Diolch Yn Fawr Welshboyo ... The amp doesn't have a 2nd channel. I can get amp 'on-the-edge' crunch by turning up the gain whilst reducing the master to tame the volume but I need 'clean' for much/most of the stuff we play, hence using pedals for drive. Gtrs - Have used Strats but now favor PRS and their humbuckers.

welshboyo

hmm, OK - so with a PRS or similar you should have enough tones in your arsenal to cover everything (my old PRS was the only guitar I could cover a whole gig on!)

Only thing I would suggest is using the the amp a little dirtier than you normally do and regulate it with your volumes and coil splits for the real clean stuff and IMO ditch the TS - as good/iconic as they are I just find them a little lacking and the clean bleed you get just makes it worse and it will sound "plinky plonky" into a strictly clean amp - same goes for Blues Driver as well - surprised that the DS1 doesn't get you there but again, into to a clean amp...I'm not sure..

Perhaps you could try a "Marshall in a Box" type OD to get that Plexi cooking type of sound (which isn't as gainy as you would think)  - be careful though as some of them (like the Joyo British Sound I think??!!) have a speaker emulated out but it may work ok if its EQ'd sensibly - they can be found very cheap.

Fenderman53

Xotic SL Drive any good? Or is it too strong?

welshboyo

Fenderman53 said:

Xotic SL Drive any good? Or is it too strong?

No, lovely sounding pedal in my opinion

hubobulous

I'd also second the approach of using the volume knob on the guitar. Cleans will be a little dirty, but that helps when playing live and you can also regulate the sound on the night depending on how you feel. You don't lose volume so much as clean up the gain when rolling it back.

TTBZ

If you want a Marshall sound the GV2 is actually a really good MIAB and cheap too. 

gibsongretschfan

welshboyo said:

Fenderman53 said:

Xotic SL Drive any good? Or is it too strong?

No, lovely sounding pedal in my opinion

Great pedal

JMP220478

are you after something like this ?

robinbowes

Sounds to me like you need a pedal that can give you a decent "crunch" sound. None of the drives you list really fit in that category.

Look at any of the various Marshall-in-a-box pedals, or the Radial Tonebone range.

Also, you need to spend some time tweaking at gig volume - maybe at rehearsal?

R.

Jota

Is your clean sound too loud or is it the drive sound? Or both?

Fenderman53

Drive sound - Played around with the 'tone/gain/volume' on the various pedals tried. Either the distortion/overdrive sound then disappears in the band mix or is OTT and band members are threatening to pull the amp plug to kill the harsh/heavy distortion sound. At one stage I was using a Fulltone 'O.C.D' (also mini version JoYo 'Husky Drive', and that got near what I was after BUT had to be careful controlling squealing feedback.

NPP

still trying to make sense of the problem so sorry if I get anything wrong or tell you things you know perfectly well.

Are you trying to boost the amp with your drive pedals? I don't think that will work terribly well as it will not clip in a nice way. Is this the harsh distortion your bandmates are complaining about?

Could you try the following:

- set the amp (clean) as loud as you need it for solos. This will be your clean lead sound.
- set a drive pedal to your preferred lead sound, but not or only very slightly louder than the clean lead sound. This will be your overdriven lead sound. (If this results in harsh distortion or uncontrollable feedback you are not going to get anywhere with your current rig I suppose.)
- use a third pedal of any kind (perhaps a reverb) with the level turned down to your preferred rhythm volume. Leave this on all the time while you play rhythm. 
- now you select either your clean or crunch base tone by turning the drive pedal on or off, and engage the third pedal to reduce volume (and drive) for rhythm. The important thing is not trying to boost the clean transistor pre-amp stage beyond what it can take. 

Fenderman53

Thanks NPP good ideas in there. I don't think I need to boost the amp any further(?) I would just like like to switch from the creamy, lush clean tone I have, (this sits nicely and can be heard in the band mix), to a comparable overdrive/distortion at a similar level. I have an Xotic EP booster to lift the level if needed.

hubobulous

Mids are your friend here. Its not necessarily a volume issue, its making sure that the mids poke through in the mix when the gain is cooking. A gain pedal with control over mids would be something to consider.