Millennials, baby boomers and Gen X ..

Neill

TTony said:

stickyfiddle said:

What changed in an average office between 1920 and 1980? Maybe more typewriters and typists, but probably very little for people doing the work.

Do you really believe that?  Do you really believe that WW2 (for just one example) had no significant impact on the working environment?

It's easy for us to look at ourselves and think that we're at a cutting edge of change so sharp and radical that nothing like it has ever been seen before, but, I'd suggest that just about every generation has gone through a similarly sharp and radical change.  It might not seem much to us, now, from our perspective, but at the time, it was - I'd wager - just as earth-shattering as our experiences today.

Previous changes have been generated by events like WW1/WW2, or the '29 crash & subsequent depression, or (for the UK) by the end of the empire, or (etc).  Social change.  The nose-in-the-phone generation might believe that there was no change pre-tech, but that's a little blinkered, probably because all they see/recgonise/value is tech.

As for tech change, I agree that the internet has changed things considerably, but it's largely - IMHO - in terms of doing more or faster, rather than doing a lot better.  Looking at your "typical week", there's a lot of activity going on, but, to be blunt, "so what"?  There's also a lot of wasted time and effort in travel, and whereas you're jumping on and off planes, that's really little different (other than in distance travelled) from jumping on and off trains, in and out of cars, or on and off a horse.  

If the internet had really changed things, you'd be VR conferencing, not travelling.

Biggest change in the working environment since the '80s?  

I think one was tech related (the introduction of the PC) and one was social related (the end of "job for life").  But that's probably because I lived through those and experienced them, so they're the main things that I saw the effect of.

Re the millennials?  They've grown up being told that they're special, so of course they have a sense of entitlement now.  Society generally seems to treat children as miracles to be protected and deified rather than the continuation of something that's happened for millennia.  

I tend to agree with @stickyfiddle - When I entered the workplace in the early 1970's some  of the technology was pre-war, in fact some of the stationery was too, and quite a few members of staff.  I worked with people that had 40 years service, and many of them were as comfortable in their work environment as when they started.  Even when computers began to take over some of the more menial tasks - and we were told this was some sort of revolution that would eventually lead to the four day week - I didn't notice any sudden change.  The widespread takeover of digital technology, however, has created a world that bears no resemblance to that of 20 years ago.  

In my view, the main problem with this is that BITD you couldn't really be left behind, you couldn't be excluded from society if you didn't keep up with technological progress.  Things became refined rather than fundamentally changed. But I know people today who have no idea what's going on - and not necessarily older folk either. 

What intrigues me is what happens when the teenagers of today - who have known nothing else but digital technology - begin running the country.  At the moment most people in powerful positions still have a certain "analogue" perspective, (I think that's the real reason why people are still going to work in offices) but we are soon going to have a generation of workers who see nothing else beyond digital solutions.  I'm torn between wanting to live long enough to see it, and thinking it might be better if I wasn't around.   

Sporky

Having started office work in the early/mid 90s, the fax and the PC had significantly changed the office environment before that point. Mobiles were still jolly rare though.

In particular, word processing completely changed the task of preparing documents, and Excel (et al) significantly changed how numerical data was handled.

gubble

I spent a day interviewing a number of people for a role this week.

I interviewed 2 millennials. One of whom was the most driven person I've met in along time. She held 3 jobs. She clearly stated she wanted to work hard and earn more money so that she doesn't have to rely upon anyone else and can look back on when she's bought a house to say that she's done it for herself. She also explained how she was also setting up her own business financed 100% by herself. I was very impressed and have zero doubt that person will go very far in this world.

The other was also excellent and demonstrated a fantastic work ethic.

On the other hand I interviewed another person in an older age category who came across as very work shy and despite being told all of the details moaned about the prospect of full time hours and wanted 30 days (plus bank holidays) holiday a year.

breakstuff

Talking of lazy arsed millenials,just found out today my eighteen year old son is on the verge if loosing his apprenticeship at the garage he works at.

Warning, this may be quite a long rant.

Got up this morning at 10.30 after finishing my nightshift to hear a TV blaring out from said sons bedroom.Thinking he should be at work,I popped my head round the door to see him lounged on his bed with a pot on his arm.Turns out he was messing around with one of his mates last night,punched him on the arm and broke/dislocated one of his knuckles.In pain,and unbeknown to me at this point because I'm in bed,my wife takes him to A&E where they patch him up.

Son was too scared to tell his boss,as he's had a few minor telling offs in the past,so my wife goes into work with him as support,wherein his boss explains to my wife that he is considering terminating his apprenticeship due to lack of interest,effort,absenteeism and lateness. Now we always drill into him how important it is to turn up on time,and do the work to the best of your abilities and with enthusiasm and to try to impress your boss and not to fall out with him,as there will only be one outcome,but there is only so much you can do before you have to step back and say "You're an adult now.You need to take responsibility".

Turns out he's been skipping college too,which he's supposed to do once a week and to top it off,the day after Boxing Day we went away to my sisters in Scunthorpe and stayed a couple of days,but my son couldn't go as he was supposed to be working that day.He'd asked his boss for the day off but was refused.We said we'd trust him to stay at home as long as he assured us he'd be up for work and kept the house tidy which he promised to do.Guess what? He never showed up at work.Along with other occasions which we had no idea about.As far as we know he's not missed a day since getting the job.

I'm sad to say this outcome has been worrying me for a while,not due to what we've discovered today,but more because of his general attitude/outlook.He's always been lazy,but we just put that down to a trait of being a teenager.I honestly believe he's going to end up in one of the numerous food production factories on minimum wage that litter the landscape round here.He says he still wants to finish his apprenticeship but doesn't get on with his boss.He genuinely doesn't get the irony of why.Everything is someone else's fault.

Sorry for the long rant,but I'm f*cking livid and so disappointed in him.

Neill

breakstuff said:

Talking of lazy arsed millenials,just found out today my eighteen year old son is on the verge if loosing his apprenticeship at the garage he works at.

Warning, this may be quite a long rant.

Got up this morning at 10.30 after finishing my nightshift to hear a TV blaring out from said sons bedroom.Thinking he should be at work,I popped my head round the door to see him lounged on his bed with a pot on his arm.Turns out he was messing around with one of his mates last night,punched him on the arm and broke/dislocated one of his knuckles.In pain,and unbeknown to me at this point because I'm in bed,my wife takes him to A&E where they patch him up.

Son was too scared to tell his boss,as he's had a few minor telling offs in the past,so my wife goes into work with him as support,wherein his boss explains to my wife that he is considering terminating his apprenticeship due to lack of interest,effort,absenteeism and lateness. Now we always drill into him how important it is to turn up on time,and do the work to the best of your abilities and with enthusiasm and to try to impress your boss and not to fall out with him,as there will only be one outcome,but there is only so much you can do before you have to step back and say "You're an adult now.You need to take responsibility".

Turns out he's been skipping college too,which he's supposed to do once a week and to top it off,the day after Boxing Day we went away to my sisters in Scunthorpe and stayed a couple of days,but my son couldn't go as he was supposed to be working that day.He'd asked his boss for the day off but was refused.We said we'd trust him to stay at home as long as he assured us he'd be up for work and kept the house tidy which he promised to do.Guess what? He never showed up at work.Along with other occasions which we had no idea about.As far as we know he's not missed a day since getting the job.

I'm sad to say this outcome has been worrying me for a while,not due to what we've discovered today,but more because of his general attitude/outlook.He's always been lazy,but we just put that down to a trait of being a teenager.I honestly believe he's going to end up in one of the numerous food production factories on minimum wage that litter the landscape round here.He says he still wants to finish his apprenticeship but doesn't get on with his boss.He genuinely doesn't get the irony of why.Everything is someone else's fault.

Sorry for the long rant,but I'm f*cking livid and so disappointed in him.

No need to apologise - it's nice to hear someone being open and honest about their kids for a change.

I have no right to advise anyone what to do with their teenage children but if it's any consolation I've seen all our friends/relatives with kids go through various similar experiences.  All these offspring are responsible adults now, some with families of their own, and of course we take great pleasure in reminding them what they used to be like. 

This is one reason why I have never had children, I think you need massive amounts of patience and tolerance to be a parent.   


  

Carew

stickyfiddle said:

But the key thing about this generation is we've grown up with rapid improvements in tech, which can both lead to and require bigger, faster change than previous generations ever had to deal with (or were able to take advantage of).

What changed in an average office between 1920 and 1980? Maybe more typewriters and typists, but probably very little for people doing the work. From 1980 to 2000 things were getting quicker, with basic computers enabling word processing and a bit of spreadsheet work for ease of calculation. But since 2000 we now have superfast internet everywhere, everyone has email via laptops and smartphones, you can videoconference with 8 different people in 5 timeszones across 4 countries without even a 1-second delay.  Every single one of those things is a total paradigm shift. 

My standard working week looks something like:

Sunday - review and analyse a 20MB financial model in Excel, then prep and send a 10-page pdf to a client 200 miles away. 
Monday - fly to Oman for a meeting with another client, having skimmed 500 pages from a lawyer in London on the flight.
Tuesday - meet with Sunday's client to prep for negotiations for a deal with a team split across Germany, France, Japan and the USA 
Weds - Kuwait, for a workshop with a third client, confirm their questions, mail those to a team in the UK and get them working on it to have answers in the morning
Thursday - follow up meetings with the Kuwait client, using the responses from London from the previous day. Then fly home, and clear out any issues with clients 1 & 2 via email from the airport lounge.

I realise that's a bit more hardcore than a standard 9-5 job, but I wouldn't be able to do any of it without decent IT, which I'm not *really* provided with. But moreover, it would have been completely impossible to work like that even 10 years ago.

some serious misapprehension and crap in the above post.  I guess a millennial wrote it.

stickyfiddle

Carew said:

stickyfiddle said:

What changed in an average office between 1920 and 1980? Maybe more typewriters and typists, but probably very little for people doing the work. From 1980 to 2000 things were getting quicker, with basic computers enabling word processing and a bit of spreadsheet work for ease of calculation. But since 2000 we now have superfast internet everywhere, everyone has email via laptops and smartphones, you can videoconference with 8 different people in 5 timeszones across 4 countries without even a 1-second delay.  Every single one of those things is a total paradigm shift. 

My standard working week looks something like:

Sunday - review and analyse a 20MB financial model in Excel, then prep and send a 10-page pdf to a client 200 miles away. 
Monday - fly to Oman for a meeting with another client, having skimmed 500 pages from a lawyer in London on the flight.
Tuesday - meet with Sunday's client to prep for negotiations for a deal with a team split across Germany, France, Japan and the USA 
Weds - Kuwait, for a workshop with a third client, confirm their questions, mail those to a team in the UK and get them working on it to have answers in the morning
Thursday - follow up meetings with the Kuwait client, using the responses from London from the previous day. Then fly home, and clear out any issues with clients 1 & 2 via email from the airport lounge.

I realise that's a bit more hardcore than a standard 9-5 job, but I wouldn't be able to do any of it without decent IT, which I'm not *really* provided with. But moreover, it would have been completely impossible to work like that even 10 years ago.

some serious misapprehension and crap in the above post.  I guess a millennial wrote it.

That's a really well-reasoned response, though. Congrats!

57Deluxe

How on fucking earth is FRIENDS any way offensive...???

Sassafras

stickyfiddle said:

Carew said:

stickyfiddle said:

What changed in an average office between 1920 and 1980? Maybe more typewriters and typists, but probably very little for people doing the work. From 1980 to 2000 things were getting quicker, with basic computers enabling word processing and a bit of spreadsheet work for ease of calculation. But since 2000 we now have superfast internet everywhere, everyone has email via laptops and smartphones, you can videoconference with 8 different people in 5 timeszones across 4 countries without even a 1-second delay.  Every single one of those things is a total paradigm shift. 

My standard working week looks something like:

Sunday - review and analyse a 20MB financial model in Excel, then prep and send a 10-page pdf to a client 200 miles away. 
Monday - fly to Oman for a meeting with another client, having skimmed 500 pages from a lawyer in London on the flight.
Tuesday - meet with Sunday's client to prep for negotiations for a deal with a team split across Germany, France, Japan and the USA 
Weds - Kuwait, for a workshop with a third client, confirm their questions, mail those to a team in the UK and get them working on it to have answers in the morning
Thursday - follow up meetings with the Kuwait client, using the responses from London from the previous day. Then fly home, and clear out any issues with clients 1 & 2 via email from the airport lounge.

I realise that's a bit more hardcore than a standard 9-5 job, but I wouldn't be able to do any of it without decent IT, which I'm not *really* provided with. But moreover, it would have been completely impossible to work like that even 10 years ago.

some serious misapprehension and crap in the above post.  I guess a millennial wrote it.

That's a really well-reasoned response, though. Congrats!

Reminds me of our old friend @Ro_S ;

Carew

stickyfiddle said:

That's a really well-reasoned response, though. Congrats!

  What I wrote wasn't intended as argued rebuttal;  it was just an observation and quick response.

Maybe i'll be able to respond more properly over the weekend.

May i ask, when did you start working in offices?  and when did you start using MS Excel?