Meeting to Handover Guitar

Nunogilberto

I've just done more or less the same thing as the OP is talking about here - I sold an amp via EBay and the buyer paid via PayPal, sending a friend to pick it up the next day (he lived miles away but his friend was coming to Wales for New Year). 

The deal went well enough apart from PayPal withholding the money for 21 days due to some policy or other. This pissed me off no end and I put a thread up about it in the Off Topic section. As they have done here, people rightly pointed out I was open to scams.

As it is, the money was finally released to me a day or so ago.

The buyer was genuine and the collection went well, but I wouldn't do this again via standard PayPal; mainly because of the long wait for my money, which to me was ridiculous. On reflection, I wish I'd asked the buyer to use PPG or insisted on cash, so at least I'd have had the money straightaway.

Erskine

Well, here is how it went.

I originally told this buyer that I was not interested in doing the deal he suggested. Then my wife and I discussed it and I decided that it should be ok. So I messaged the guy back on eBay and listed a whole load of conditions - photo evidence sent before travelling, details of his car, payment to be made through eBay in advance, etc. I intended taking my son with me, taking pictures of the guy with the guitar at point of exchange, signed receipt.

Then I felt a bit uneasy about it and posted for advice here. When the opinions here seemed to highlight too many risks, I subsequently messaged the guy again and told him that I was not prepared to deal like that. I had heard nothing from him since his first message. Only late last night did he respond by saying that after my first rejection, he found a guitar closer to him and bought it. Now that seemed nonsense to me!

I then removed the eBay listing and relisted it with some amendments regarding collection. Not long after that eBay messaged me warning me against doing deals off eBay.

So, the guitar is now for RM delivery or cash on collection.

On the point that has been made by some. I was aware that most courier companies either do not insure guitars or limit the insurance to loss not damage. However, as far as I could establish, Royal Mail insure for damage or loss and this is why the cost is so high. If I am wrong on that, someone could let me know.

Chalky

Erskine said:

Well, here is how it went.

I originally told this buyer that I was not interested in doing the deal he suggested. Then my wife and I discussed it and I decided that it should be ok. So I messaged the guy back on eBay and listed a whole load of conditions - photo evidence sent before travelling, details of his car, payment to be made through eBay in advance, etc. I intended taking my son with me, taking pictures of the guy with the guitar at point of exchange, signed receipt.

Then I felt a bit uneasy about it and posted for advice here. When the opinions here seemed to highlight too many risks, I subsequently messaged the guy again and told him that I was not prepared to deal like that. I had heard nothing from him since his first message. Only late last night did he respond by saying that after my first rejection, he found a guitar closer to him and bought it. Now that seemed nonsense to me!

I then removed the eBay listing and relisted it with some amendments regarding collection. Not long after that eBay messaged me warning me against doing deals off eBay.

So, the guitar is now for RM delivery or cash on collection.

On the point that has been made by some. I was aware that most courier companies either do not insure guitars or limit the insurance to loss not damage. However, as far as I could establish, Royal Mail insure for damage or loss and this is why the cost is so high. If I am wrong on that, someone could let me know.

They take your insurance but they have limits on what they will payout on guitars. It was £100, maybe its changed. Good luck getting them to payout any money...

John_P

You could always try advertising it here instead of dealing Ebay.  

Iamnobody

Erskine said:

Well, here is how it went.

I originally told this buyer that I was not interested in doing the deal he suggested. Then my wife and I discussed it and I decided that it should be ok. So I messaged the guy back on eBay and listed a whole load of conditions - photo evidence sent before travelling, details of his car, payment to be made through eBay in advance, etc. I intended taking my son with me, taking pictures of the guy with the guitar at point of exchange, signed receipt.

Then I felt a bit uneasy about it and posted for advice here. When the opinions here seemed to highlight too many risks, I subsequently messaged the guy again and told him that I was not prepared to deal like that. I had heard nothing from him since his first message. Only late last night did he respond by saying that after my first rejection, he found a guitar closer to him and bought it. Now that seemed nonsense to me!

I then removed the eBay listing and relisted it with some amendments regarding collection. Not long after that eBay messaged me warning me against doing deals off eBay.

So, the guitar is now for RM delivery or cash on collection.

On the point that has been made by some. I was aware that most courier companies either do not insure guitars or limit the insurance to loss not damage. However, as far as I could establish, Royal Mail insure for damage or loss and this is why the cost is so high. If I am wrong on that, someone could let me know.

I’m not surprised the buyer backed off. If I’d have received your ‘terms’ I’d have told you to Foxtrot Oscar in no uncertain terms and I speak as a genuine person with nothing to hide or any  intention of scamming.

thegummy

Iamnobody said:

Erskine said:

Well, here is how it went.

I originally told this buyer that I was not interested in doing the deal he suggested. Then my wife and I discussed it and I decided that it should be ok. So I messaged the guy back on eBay and listed a whole load of conditions - photo evidence sent before travelling, details of his car, payment to be made through eBay in advance, etc. I intended taking my son with me, taking pictures of the guy with the guitar at point of exchange, signed receipt.

Then I felt a bit uneasy about it and posted for advice here. When the opinions here seemed to highlight too many risks, I subsequently messaged the guy again and told him that I was not prepared to deal like that. I had heard nothing from him since his first message. Only late last night did he respond by saying that after my first rejection, he found a guitar closer to him and bought it. Now that seemed nonsense to me!

I then removed the eBay listing and relisted it with some amendments regarding collection. Not long after that eBay messaged me warning me against doing deals off eBay.

So, the guitar is now for RM delivery or cash on collection.

On the point that has been made by some. I was aware that most courier companies either do not insure guitars or limit the insurance to loss not damage. However, as far as I could establish, Royal Mail insure for damage or loss and this is why the cost is so high. If I am wrong on that, someone could let me know.

I’m not surprised the buyer backed off. If I’d have received your ‘terms’ I’d have told you to Foxtrot Oscar in no uncertain terms and I speak as a genuine person with nothing to hide or any  intention of scamming.

How come?

Though they're quite weird, I don't see how it would hurt or inconvenience you in any way really.

midlifecrisis

thegummy said:

Iamnobody said:

Erskine said:

Well, here is how it went.

I originally told this buyer that I was not interested in doing the deal he suggested. Then my wife and I discussed it and I decided that it should be ok. So I messaged the guy back on eBay and listed a whole load of conditions - photo evidence sent before travelling, details of his car, payment to be made through eBay in advance, etc. I intended taking my son with me, taking pictures of the guy with the guitar at point of exchange, signed receipt.

Then I felt a bit uneasy about it and posted for advice here. When the opinions here seemed to highlight too many risks, I subsequently messaged the guy again and told him that I was not prepared to deal like that. I had heard nothing from him since his first message. Only late last night did he respond by saying that after my first rejection, he found a guitar closer to him and bought it. Now that seemed nonsense to me!

I then removed the eBay listing and relisted it with some amendments regarding collection. Not long after that eBay messaged me warning me against doing deals off eBay.

So, the guitar is now for RM delivery or cash on collection.

On the point that has been made by some. I was aware that most courier companies either do not insure guitars or limit the insurance to loss not damage. However, as far as I could establish, Royal Mail insure for damage or loss and this is why the cost is so high. If I am wrong on that, someone could let me know.

I’m not surprised the buyer backed off. If I’d have received your ‘terms’ I’d have told you to Foxtrot Oscar in no uncertain terms and I speak as a genuine person with nothing to hide or any  intention of scamming.

How come?

Though they're quite weird, I don't see how it would hurt or inconvenience you in any way really.

despite what you think, you are protecting yourself, ebay/paypal wouldnt accept those clauses and conditions as proof anyway. Plus, no disrespect meant but it makes you come across as a not trustworthy person, especially as you have said no the first time. As an honest buyer myself and occasional seller, i would feel very wary dealing with you.

mort

Don’t use Royal Mail/Parcelforce if you want insurance.

Use UPS booked via Interparcel or Transglobal express.

Erskine

mort said:

Don’t use Royal Mail/Parcelforce if you want insurance.

Use UPS booked via Interparcel or Transglobal express.

Pretty sure I checked them and they dont cover guitars.

Erskine

midlifecrisis said:

thegummy said:

Iamnobody said:

Erskine said:

Well, here is how it went.

I originally told this buyer that I was not interested in doing the deal he suggested. Then my wife and I discussed it and I decided that it should be ok. So I messaged the guy back on eBay and listed a whole load of conditions - photo evidence sent before travelling, details of his car, payment to be made through eBay in advance, etc. I intended taking my son with me, taking pictures of the guy with the guitar at point of exchange, signed receipt.

Then I felt a bit uneasy about it and posted for advice here. When the opinions here seemed to highlight too many risks, I subsequently messaged the guy again and told him that I was not prepared to deal like that. I had heard nothing from him since his first message. Only late last night did he respond by saying that after my first rejection, he found a guitar closer to him and bought it. Now that seemed nonsense to me!

I then removed the eBay listing and relisted it with some amendments regarding collection. Not long after that eBay messaged me warning me against doing deals off eBay.

So, the guitar is now for RM delivery or cash on collection.

On the point that has been made by some. I was aware that most courier companies either do not insure guitars or limit the insurance to loss not damage. However, as far as I could establish, Royal Mail insure for damage or loss and this is why the cost is so high. If I am wrong on that, someone could let me know.

I’m not surprised the buyer backed off. If I’d have received your ‘terms’ I’d have told you to Foxtrot Oscar in no uncertain terms and I speak as a genuine person with nothing to hide or any  intention of scamming.

How come?

Though they're quite weird, I don't see how it would hurt or inconvenience you in any way really.

despite what you think, you are protecting yourself, ebay/paypal wouldnt accept those clauses and conditions as proof anyway. Plus, no disrespect meant but it makes you come across as a not trustworthy person, especially as you have said no the first time. As an honest buyer myself and occasional seller, i would feel very wary dealing with you.

Of course I am protecting myself. I was expected to undertake a 200 mile round trip and risk losing a pretty valuable guitar. I am not sure how many people would simply hop in their car without some form of security.

And PayPal and eBay advise simply not to do this.

Voxman

The problem with eBay and PayPal is that these provide good comeback and protection for buyers but sellers are much more exposed. Recorded signed for delivery is the only sensible approach when paid by PayPal unless you can evidence the identity of the buyer who is taking possession in a personal handover situation. 

There is also a risk even with cash transactions that cash can be forged and you have no comeback.  Although the vast majority of buyers and sellers are completely honest and trustworthy individuals, it is the small minority of dishonest people that ruin things for everyone.  Regardless of eBay rules or whether some folk might not like your safety terms, you have to act prudently to protect your own position.  

baldy

A few years ago I had to send an expensive watch (well expensive to me at about £500 new) to a London specialist for repair from South Wales.
The jewellers I had bought it from had closed down & no local jewellers could do the repair.
I sent it Royal Mail, next day, insured for £500, tracked & signed for.
I got a phone call from the London jewellers 2 days after posting it to say that the parcel had arrived but that there was nothing in it.
They said that it wasn"t the first time that this had happened as the posties knew that parcels going to their address would likely contain expensive watches or jewellery.
I tried to claim on the insurance but Royal Mail just said that they had delivered it & there was no proof that I had actually put the watch in the parcel.
Bingo no watch & no insurance money to buy a new one with.

jakzek

Has anyone used AnyVan as a courier service? I posted an ad for an exhaust I needed shipping but the quotes were high as it was a long object so I stuck to selling it locally through gumtree. Might be worth a look for insured delivery?

mort

Erskine said:

mort said:

Don’t use Royal Mail/Parcelforce if you want insurance.

Use UPS booked via Interparcel or Transglobal express.

Pretty sure I checked them and they dont cover guitars.

You might want to double check, particularly Transglobal. If you search the forum you’ll find that UPS are the most often recommended courier for guitars. Royal Mail on the other hand.....

Octafish

baldy said:

A few years ago I had to send an expensive watch (well expensive to me at about £500 new) to a London specialist for repair from South Wales.
The jewellers I had bought it from had closed down & no local jewellers could do the repair.
I sent it Royal Mail, next day, insured for £500, tracked & signed for.
I got a phone call from the London jewellers 2 days after posting it to say that the parcel had arrived but that there was nothing in it.
They said that it wasn"t the first time that this had happened as the posties knew that parcels going to their address would likely contain expensive watches or jewellery.
I tried to claim on the insurance but Royal Mail just said that they had delivered it & there was no proof that I had actually put the watch in the parcel.
Bingo no watch & no insurance money to buy a new one with.

That's a bit crap. Having said that, the jeweller screwed you over a bit by accepting the package. It must have been obvious on delivery that the package was open/empty plus if they had that issue before you'd have thought they'd been extra wary. From Royal Mail's point of view the jeweller accepted and signed for the package without query. For all they/you know the jeweller could have been the one who knicked it

meltedbuzzbox

So to summarise this thread. Don't sell anything to anyone

baldy

Yes who knows, left a sour taste in my mouth but nothing I could do about it.
Point of my post though was that even if you use a respected company like Royal Mail/ Parcel Force & take out what you think is pretty comprehensive insurance cover you can still find yourself out of pocket in certain circumstances.
This is from the Royal Mail website
" Items excluded from compensation for damageMusical instruments are excluded from enhanced compensation. Guitars and brass instruments are particularly prone to damage"

Erskine

baldy said:

Yes who knows, left a sour taste in my mouth but nothing I could do about it.
Point of my post though was that even if you use a respected company like Royal Mail/ Parcel Force & take out what you think is pretty comprehensive insurance cover you can still find yourself out of pocket in certain circumstances.
This is from the Royal Mail website
" Items excluded from compensation for damage

Musical instruments are excluded from enhanced compensation. Guitars and brass instruments are particularly prone to damage"

Hmmm, I had not noticed that. On other couriers, they simply do not allow you to take insurance on guitars. Whereas, Parcel force do.

mort

‘On other couriers, they simply do not allow you to take insurance on guitars’

I give up.

Erskine

mort said:

Erskine said:

mort said:

Don’t use Royal Mail/Parcelforce if you want insurance.

Use UPS booked via Interparcel or Transglobal express.

Pretty sure I checked them and they dont cover guitars.

You might want to double check, particularly Transglobal. If you search the forum you’ll find that UPS are the most often recommended courier for guitars. Royal Mail on the other hand.....

Checked again and this is what you get when you state what you are sending:



Damage is limited to £100, but you do get £1000 for lost.

However, from what has been said, it sounds like Royal Mail is not much better, but they simply charge you more.