Something I'm surprised Fender haven't done yet

mbe

rossyamaha said:

Listening to the new Hotrod amps, it's just occurred to me. I'm really surprised that of all the amp companies out there, why Fender haven't got hold of a Dumble and reverse engineered it and made their own version. I think if they did, released an inspired by and made it something like affordable they would clean up. Just a thought. 

Could call it the Fumble!

richardhomer

I’m not sure how much demand there would be?

There aren’t ‘that’ many players whose ‘signature’ tones come from one - Robben Ford and Larry Carlton are the two most obvious - SRV’s Dumble wasn’t an ODS and was an essentially clean amp.

The ODS style amps have lots of thick lower-mids and sound quite different to driven Marshalls, or Fenders. I’ve played a Fuchs - it sounded fantastic - but wasn’t easy to dial in - and it wasn’t massively versatile. 

There are plenty of high-end makers dabbling with Dumblesque designs (notably Two Rock) - my guess it Fender know what they can shift a lot of and stick with those.

Barney

Jim Price from omega amps converts hot rod deluxes to give a Dumble type of sound ...i have one of these and have to say they are better amp altogether when the mod is done ....quite a bit of work is involved but what an amp when done ...

stratman3142

Kebabkid said:

If anything, if I were Fender, I'd do a re-issue of a Rivera-era 80s Superchamp.

Is that the one used by Alan Murphy with his Squier Strat? I heard him use that live with SFX and he used it on the first Go West album. A wonderful tone, but his playing was probably a significant factor.

I purchased a Squier Strat and a Superchamp after that. The JV series Squier Strat was great but the Superchamp I got was a later model and frankly a bit shit.

If they re-released the Superchamp that Alan Murphy used that would be very interesting.

JayGee

ICBM said:

Kebabkid said:

If anything, if I were Fender, I'd do a re-issue of a Rivera-era 80s Superchamp.

They can't reissue it accurately because of the 6C10 valve which is now unobtainable apart from small stocks of NOS ones.  It was also hopelessly uneconomical to make - Fender lost money on all that series, according to Paul Rivera - so it would have to be extremely expensive, probably.

I sometimes wish I hadn't sold mine - I've had four of them, although only as many as three at the same time .

Isn’t the 6C10 just one-and-a-half ECC83 /12AX7 in a single envelope? - I wouldn’t have thought that would be too hard to design around (and I gather that some people who’ve had problems finding 6C10s have replaced them with a pair of valves on a daughter board anyway) and I doubt anybody would be that hung up on originality, it would just be another handy “big amp features in a small form factor” alternative to something like a Mesa 5:25 1x10.

I’ve still got mine by the way, and while it hasn’t seen use for a while it’s going nowhere...

JayGee

JayGee said:

ICBM said:

Kebabkid said:

If anything, if I were Fender, I'd do a re-issue of a Rivera-era 80s Superchamp.

They can't reissue it accurately because of the 6C10 valve which is now unobtainable apart from small stocks of NOS ones.  It was also hopelessly uneconomical to make - Fender lost money on all that series, according to Paul Rivera - so it would have to be extremely expensive, probably.

I sometimes wish I hadn't sold mine - I've had four of them, although only as many as three at the same time .

Isn’t the 6C10 just one-and-a-half ECC83 /12AX7 in a single envelope? - I wouldn’t have thought that would be too hard to design around (and I gather that some people who’ve had problems finding 6C10s have replaced them with a pair of valves on a daughter board anyway) and I doubt anybody would be that hung up on originality, it would just be another handy “big amp features in a small form factor” alternative to something like a Mesa 5:25 1x10.

I’ve still got mine by the way, and while it hasn’t seen use for a while it’s going nowhere...

...and that bloody silly foot- switch mechanism can go as well while they’re at it!

ICBM

JayGee said:

Isn’t the 6C10 just one-and-a-half ECC83 /12AX7 in a single envelope?

Yes.

What I did with one of mine when I couldn't get a 6C10 was to take the paralleled 12AT7 reverb driver and split it, then use one half of it as the reverb return - which then means you only need a 12AX7 to replace the 6C10 (obviously in a new holder). This reduces the depth of the reverb slightly, but since it's more than enough anyway at least on the clean sound, it doesn't seem to matter. I bet it would be criticised for being "non original" if they did reissue it like that though.

I'm not sure if I want another one though, to be honest - although they sounded great for their size they had absolutely no bottom-end at band volume, even with two of them in stereo. They were perfect when I was in a 6-piece band where the guitar had to fit in a narrow frequency range, but as soon as I went back to a more traditional 2-guitar band they were useless - just really shrill and lacking any body to the sound.

Ossyrocks

hywelg said:

Quite a few if us on here own clones and the overriding thing is that they will all be different. HAD made different amps for different folks. Robben Ford's Dumble is a completely different amp to the one HAD  made for SRV. Even the ODS has different eras and characteristics. And of course HAD modded lots of other amps. 

@Ossyrocks probably knows most about them on here and had a huge photo archive of Dumbles. 

You have to remember Two Rock started out cloning Dumbles and their amps are still loosely based on them. Then there are many US cloners like Bludotone, Amplified Nation, Weaken, Glassworks, Fuchs etc etc. never mind Malaysian Ceriatone. Fender would struggle with that competition Tbh. 

Thanks for the endorsement, but there's a lot of very knowledgeable people in the Dumble world!

When you get into Dumble territory, build quality is of a major concern to those buying. For Fender to even come close, their margins would be severely diminished.

The other thing to consider is that a Dumble, or a good clone, requires a level of ability possessed only by those players who have a reasonable or greater skill and technique on a guitar. Your average Joe may actually sound pretty awful when presented with this style of amp for the first time. There is nowhere to hide. 

My first experience of a genuine Dumble was of a 70's combo, in the 30's range of serial numbers. At the time I was gigging a Super Reverb with a strat and was used to really attacking the guitar. Playing through the Dumble, I sounded pretty bad. They are all about touch and dynamics.

Rob

ICBM

Ossyrocks said:

The other thing to consider is that a Dumble, or a good clone, requires a level of ability possessed only by those players who have a reasonable or greater skill and technique on a guitar. Your average Joe may actually sound pretty awful when presented with this style of amp for the first time. There is nowhere to hide.

lol

It's an amp, not a Stradivarius.

The one I played sounded like an amp. I'm quite an average player but it certainly didn't sound awful.

A cranked Marshall Super Lead is *far* harder to control and not sound awful with.

clarkefan

I played through one once at a show testing out a Les Paul.  Tiny thing. I noticed nothing particularly remarkable about it.  

Except the price tag, 12 grand US!

Ossyrocks

clarkefan said:

I played through one once at a show testing out a Les Paul.  Tiny thing. I noticed nothing particularly remarkable about it.  

Except the price tag, 12 grand US!

That was cheap!

clarkefan

It was about 13 years ago

57Deluxe

I have a couple of cheap pedals that either can make my Fender Super Reverb sound like a Dumble.