Chapman Guitars at NAMM

darthed1981

thegummy said:

axisus said:

I don't get why everyone has to bash a UK music venture. Sure, if in two years time it has failed miserably then fine, you can say it was a bad idea and poorly thought through, but why not just let it run for itself and see if it has legs. Sure, it look 'ambitious' but no-one is asking anyone here to fork out for one. This is definitely the anti-Chapman factor that we have around here. What we need is a Bonamassa endorsed one to really get the party swinging.

I don't think anyone's trying to stop it

I personally wish Chappers well, and his partners in Chapman.  Let's face it Lee Anderton really owns internet marketing in the guitar world.

They presumably are doing well with the £1199 guitars everyone here thought would be a disaster or they wouldn't be doubling down.  Presumably it also allows Chapman and his team to get custom made guitars paid for by their company, probably without them even being classed as BIK!

adamm82

A made in UK guitar does nothing for me. But a amp would. 

And the resale value will be poor.

digitalscream

thegummy said:

But that doesn't apply to Britain - there isn't a history of the top guitars being made here. So anyone believing that British people would be better at making guitars than Koreans etc. would be doing so blindly based on nationalism at best or quite possibly even racism.

I think you're reaching a bit far to make this into a racial bias issue when it's nothing of the sort.

Apart from my N4, by Monday I'll have four guitars which were made in Britain, and it's absolutely nothing to do with nationalism or racism and everything to do with the fact that I can ring the guys who made them, or even pop round to see them - pre-sale, during construction and after delivery - if I want any changes or advice, and building that relationship has value all by itself. Look at Jaden, Feline, Oil City, Thorpy etc - you may not notice it, but their interaction with people makes a massive difference to the way they sell their products and how they're perceived by their customers.

Sure, building a relationship like that doesn't really mean much when you're spending £500 on a guitar. When you're spending upwards of £2k, though, it matters.

Of course, you don't get that with these new British Standard CGs either.

thegummy

digitalscream said:

thegummy said:

But that doesn't apply to Britain - there isn't a history of the top guitars being made here. So anyone believing that British people would be better at making guitars than Koreans etc. would be doing so blindly based on nationalism at best or quite possibly even racism.

I think you're reaching a bit far to make this into a racial bias issue when it's nothing of the sort.

Apart from my N4, by Monday I'll have four guitars which were made in Britain, and it's absolutely nothing to do with nationalism or racism and everything to do with the fact that I can ring the guys who made them, or even pop round to see them - pre-sale, during construction and after delivery - if I want any changes or advice, and building that relationship has value all by itself. Look at Jaden, Feline, Oil City, Thorpy etc - you may not notice it, but their interaction with people makes a massive difference to the way they sell their products and how they're perceived by their customers.

Sure, building a relationship like that doesn't really mean much when you're spending £500 on a guitar. When you're spending upwards of £2k, though, it matters.

Of course, you don't get that with these new British Standard CGs either.

None of that will apply to Chapman, will it?

thegummy

You have to admit that when Chapman use the term "made in the UK" they're using it as if that means it's inherently better and not just aiming it at people who live in the UK.

Buying directly from a local luthier would be great for all the reasons listed by @digitalscream but is there any indication that with the Chapman, people will be able to actually pop in to the luthier? I don't think they're even named.

SimonC

thegummy said:

You have to admit that when Chapman use the term "made in the UK" they're using it as if that means it's inherently better and not just aiming it at people who live in the UK.

I think you’re trying to turn this into something which it really is not.

Theres nothing racist about wanting to buy British or support British industry.

Theres a whole section on this forum called Made in the UK for heavens sake.
Nothing is implied by it.

Schnozz

At 40% of the price, I wouldn't bat an eyelid and probably approve...But that guy is one greedy motherf****er.

thegummy

SimonC said:

thegummy said:

You have to admit that when Chapman use the term "made in the UK" they're using it as if that means it's inherently better and not just aiming it at people who live in the UK.

I think you’re trying to turn this into something which it really is not.

Theres nothing racist about wanting to buy British or support British industry.

Theres a whole section on this forum called Made in the UK for heavens sake.
Nothing is implied by it.

Choosing to buy something British may be nationalistic but it's just a choice that you make and are perfectly fine doing so if that's what you believe in.

It's completely different to actually believing a British person would be better at making a guitar than someone from another country.

My point about it not just being aimed at people who live in the UK is important - anyone who doesn't live in the UK wouldn't have that incentive of supporting their own country.

SimonC

thegummy said:

SimonC said:

thegummy said:

You have to admit that when Chapman use the term "made in the UK" they're using it as if that means it's inherently better and not just aiming it at people who live in the UK.

I think you’re trying to turn this into something which it really is not.

Theres nothing racist about wanting to buy British or support British industry.

Theres a whole section on this forum called Made in the UK for heavens sake.
Nothing is implied by it.

Choosing to buy something British may be nationalistic but it's just a choice that you make and are perfectly fine doing so if that's what you believe in.

It's completely different to actually believing a British person would be better at making a guitar than someone from another country.

My point about it not just being aimed at people who live in the UK is important - anyone who doesn't live in the UK wouldn't have that incentive of supporting their own country.

So do you think that all Guitars should have their country of origin kept secret?

thegummy

SimonC said:

thegummy said:

SimonC said:

thegummy said:

You have to admit that when Chapman use the term "made in the UK" they're using it as if that means it's inherently better and not just aiming it at people who live in the UK.

I think you’re trying to turn this into something which it really is not.

Theres nothing racist about wanting to buy British or support British industry.

Theres a whole section on this forum called Made in the UK for heavens sake.
Nothing is implied by it.

Choosing to buy something British may be nationalistic but it's just a choice that you make and are perfectly fine doing so if that's what you believe in.

It's completely different to actually believing a British person would be better at making a guitar than someone from another country.

My point about it not just being aimed at people who live in the UK is important - anyone who doesn't live in the UK wouldn't have that incentive of supporting their own country.

So do you think that all Guitars should have their country of origin kept secret?

No, don't see what the point of that would be. It's useful for people like yourself who like to take politics into consideration as well as everything else when buying a guitar.

But to anyone outside the UK, or inside who doesn't have that political desire, the fact that they're made in the UK doesn't say anything about how good the guitar will actually be. But in the guitar world there is very much a general idea that guitars made in certain countries are inherently better than those made in others. It's easy to see why some people believe that about America, as mentioned before, but that wouldn't apply to the UK.

Maybe it's nothing to do with race and instead people think a guitar would be better when made in a first world country.

Just to re-iterate, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with choosing to buy something made in your own country for political reasons. It's the idea that it would be inherently better that I believe is factually wrong.

Jez6345789

I just want to say for me its not a bash at Chapman guitars or Rob I can take or leave both but I will be very impressed if he pulls it off and in 3 years time  there is a Chapman UK factory turning out guitars that compete with other smaller US/EU builders who all manage to do it but in general we struggle to do it in the UK.  

I would of thought with the wide experience here of getting custom guitars built someone would have named the shed where they are being made. Having not had a lot to do with getting a custom guitar built. I have no idea but realistically there are not many places capable of turning out as few as 15 guitars a month from the little I know most places any good cant turn that out in 3 months most I have seen maybe have 5 or 6 builds on the go. Very different from having a small production line. Unless the bodies and stuff are being milled elsewhere and its a fit and finish job.

So any ideas who's workshop it is.  

usedtobe

I like my volume and tone knobs all behind the bridge, so I wouldn’t be buying one..

FelineGuitars

Guitars made in Japan, Korea, China, Indonesia, Vietnam etc. can be great when the company :
a) allows enough budget to use good quality parts and materials
b) has a good and rigorous Quality Control in place

Usually we have experienced absolute rubbish from some of these countries because they are making for a Western customer (maybe under license) who wants costs kept down to a stupidly low price that forces them to use parts and materials that are too poor for the job 

skunkwerx

Philly_Q said:

I really don't mean this as Chappers bashing, but is there anyone on earth who would see the Chapman name on the headstock as a desirable thing? 

It's not a prestigious brand name and he's not a famous musician, more of a love-him-or-hate-him internet personality.  None of which inspire a £3.5k outlay on one of his guitars.

It seems to me the name is more of a handicap than a help and these guitars will have to be extraordinarily good to overcome it.

Aye. Me. But not for £4k. 

I love guitars, I think the Andertons videos are entertaining, the shop itself pretty good.

Anyone and everyone has a Gibson that looks like every other US made Gibson out there. 
(Not  bashing, because I get the allure to them and wouldnt mind one myself!)

But I also like the idea of having something less well known and seen.
The fact there is a dudes name on it that lives just a few miles away thats made his dream happen, is cool I think. 

Of course I would also love a feline, who is also just down the road. But thats 3 months full wages for my sorry retail employee ass, so its a dream only. Of course its a much better, higher end instrument though!

So when I saw the Chapman Ml-2 for £399 with its Grovers and Ebony board and solid mahogany body and build quality the same as my world music made Prs Se (which cost the same but for much less spec), with a gig bag to boot, I snapped one up to see what they were like. Now because £400 is half a months wages for me, thats a big old spend. 

But that was the right era! The mk1 and mk2 ranges. Cheap, good korean factory, decent branded hardware (except the pups, which arent terrible, just not great).

Good basis for replacing the pups, having it set up to your liking and voila, a decent workhorse of a guitar.

Of course, I didnt buy it beleving I’d get my money back if I sold it. But I also play it a lot and don’t intend to sell it

But who knows in 10 or 20 years if their brand will be about, if so how big etc. 
Maybe I would get my £400 back for an early run string thru singlecut chapman. 

But I couldnt give much of a toss either way. I’d rather have my health and sanity in 10-20 years!

Gulliver

Whitecat said:

lonestar said:

Rather coy about showing the faces of the “luthiers”. 

Surely it would make more sense to say “these amazing handcrafted Chapman Guitars are made right here in the UK. Let’s meet the luthiers” or something to that effect? 

So much this. 

Even if the guy making the guitar isn’t the “head boy” on the luthier team, I at least want to know who is in charge and what their credentials are if I’m dropping that kinda coin. 

A YouTube mouthpiece is not good enough...

lonestar said:

Id be keen to know...

1. Who are the luthiers?

I suspect the reason the luthiers are being kept secret is because CG knows they're asking a shit-load of money for a guitar from a brand known widely as 'affordable'  -  and if those luthiers have their own business, why not just message them direct for something near-identical with a different name on the top and save some cash!!



I wrote this on the CG forum about a year ago:

If they made a higher-end range, it would mean sourcing a new factory - presumably in either the USA or Japan (a UK built CG range hasn't worked in the past, and is unlikely to yield different results if tried again). It just strikes me as a vanity exercise to try and extend the brand from affordable/mid-range to 'exclusive'. 

PRS have shown you can go from high-end guitars and bring prices/quality down, but going the other way hasn't been popular in the past.

Winny_Pooh

thoughts:

Dude has 625K Youtube subscribers - lots of exposure...

Should have been made in Japan. Excellent quality and lower pricepoint.

themeinside

Funkfingers said:

Meanwhile, what is the common abbreviation for British Standard? 

Still chuckling at this one!

Strat54

And I'm still wondering who buys Patrick Eggle guitars at £3k....but they do. They were the 'poor mans' PRS back in the 90's but they seemed to have re-invented themselves post bankruptcy as a prestige brand priced above PRS and Tom Anderson. I mean swamp as and bog oak with no finish for £3095...really?? 

https://worldguitars.co.uk/shop/patrick-james-eggle-96-hss-swamp-ash-white-with-bog-oak-neck-17636/

So who knows, maybe the U.S players will buy into the whole British built Chapman thing. Good luck.

prlgmnr

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Apart from the issue of price and so on, one thing that puzzles me is just why should people buy into Chapman as a brand

Just simple guitarists...people of the internet...the common clay of Youtube....you know....

clarkefan

It's a marketing exercise.

It's not a big up-front investment of cash and facilities for Chapman the company to make so actually from their perspective it's a no-brainer.  

They have made four guitars which probably cost less to make than the annual trip to NAMM and, er, that's it.

Get any orders, have the guitar made.  No orders, no additional costs or sitting on unsold stock.

So for approx. 4 grand they are now a premium brand.  Somebody somewhere is a bit clever.  And if they actually sell any then that's gravy.

Remember those mega-expensive Boss amps that came out maybe 2 years ago? I don't think Boss ever had any intention of actually selling any of those, it wasn't their market, but it sure got a shitload of attention at the time.  Funnily enough then came Katana...