Superchamp X2. Am I missing out?

pottolom

I have a Fender Superchamp X2, which I use together with my only current electric: a Tokai ES90.

The Tokai is a really, wonderful ES335 copy and the 'nicest' guitar I've ever had (in terms of how it plays, looks, sounds and feels), and I've had a few. What I haven't tried that many of is amps. 

The Superchamp is my only current amp. I play at home only, at relatively low volume, usually in the evenings. I play mainly indie, Beatles, and a bit of blues, as well as my own stuff (which tends to be a bit more experimental). I'm a very average player if I'm honest, but I'm slowly getting better and having fun in the process. I also might want to record an amp occasionally, and together with some friends we're talking about putting a band together at the moment.

I don't feel I'm missing out with my guitar, as I said, I've had a few so I know what I like now. I do wonder, though, if I'm missing out amp-wise, and the reason I wonder this is because the Superchamp isn't a 'true' valve amp - the preamp section is entirely digital.

So, my question is, is there an all-valve amp out there that might sound 'better' than the Superchamp but at a similar price? If so, I'm prepared to get hold of one and try out both for a while and sell the one I end up liking the least. The criteria I'd be looking for:

- Something that sounds good clean (I tend to mainly use the Superchamp on channel 1, so that's very much a Blackface sound), although sometimes I like a small amount of dirt too;
- All-valve;
- Something loud enough for jamming with friends and possibly small gigs;
- A combo;
- Relatively compact and small in stature, like the Superchamp, as I don't have much space to keep it in;
- Under £300.

One amp I did consider when I first got the Superchamp was the VHT Special 6 / Special 6 Ultra, but I thought it might sound a bit too tweedy for me, and not blackfacey enough.

Any suggestions gratefully received. 

thecolourbox

Will definitely follow this thread as I'd like to find something similar to replace my Princeton

JezWynd

thecolourbox said:

Will definitely follow this thread as I'd like to find something similar to replace my Princeton

Do you find the Princeton too much for home use?

OP: I can highly recommend the VHT Special 6 Ultra. I moved it on eventually as it lacked reverb but it was a very good combo, the 12" speaker made a big improvement and it was a good substitute for the Princeton which I'd had previously. The Ultra channel could be slightly noisy but I found running the standard channel with a drive pedal (Gain Changer) did everything I required.

thecolourbox

JezWynd said:

thecolourbox said:

Will definitely follow this thread as I'd like to find something similar to replace my Princeton

Do you find the Princeton too much for home use?

Without de-railing the OP, in short, yes it's too loud for my small room. No usable volume on the low numbers on the volume dial, pedals sound woofy and naff at that volume, so I have to turn it up and attenuate it down which is a faff, not to mention the subjective issue that I don't like the sound that much

JezWynd

thecolourbox said:

JezWynd said:

thecolourbox said:

Will definitely follow this thread as I'd like to find something similar to replace my Princeton

Do you find the Princeton too much for home use?

Without de-railing the OP, in short, yes it's too loud for my small room. No usable volume on the low numbers on the volume dial, pedals sound woofy and naff at that volume, so I have to turn it up and attenuate it down which is a faff, not to mention the subjective issue that I don't like the sound that much

Interesting, thanks. Now back our regular programme...

menamestom

I had the smaller Vibro Champ XD and it sounded great.  Next up in Fender cleans is a Princeton really but they cost a fortune and won’t sound massively better at home levels.

The ‘65 works great at home levels and great with pedals, not sure if the ‘68 is quite the same.

thecolourbox

menamestom said:

I had the smaller Vibro Champ XD and it sounded great.  Next up in Fender cleans is a Princeton really but they cost a fortune and won’t sound massively better at home levels.

The ‘65 works great at home levels and great with pedals, not sure if the ‘68 is quite the same.

Mine is the 68 one, don't rate it for home use but my room is small

pottolom

JezWynd said:

thecolourbox said:

Will definitely follow this thread as I'd like to find something similar to replace my Princeton

Do you find the Princeton too much for home use?

OP: I can highly recommend the VHT Special 6 Ultra. I moved it on eventually as it lacked reverb but it was a very good combo, the 12" speaker made a big improvement and it was a good substitute for the Princeton which I'd had previously. The Ultra channel could be slightly noisy but I found running the standard channel with a drive pedal (Gain Changer) did everything I required.

Thanks! That's useful to know. So you found the Special 6 Ultra did a convincing, clean blackface sound? My understanding is that it's also great for tweed champ sounds too.....? I wouldn't be very interested in the really high-gain stuff it can do, so I do wonder if the standard Special 6 might be better for my needs.

The fact that the Special 6 is completely handwired (and therefore, presumably, infinitely serviceable) is a real plus-point for me. One thing that puts me off (and I know this is superficial and therefore a bit silly) is that it doesn't look as 'cool' as my Superchamp!

57Deluxe

the trick with the SCXD models is to use external drive(s) and only feather-in the on-board models' gain. Also  - output to  abigger cab... the odd delay additionally can be nice too...

http://oi59.tinypic.com/wu0whd.jpg

http://oi59.tinypic.com/34fihhw.jpg

jellybelly

I’ve got a Vintage Peavey for sale that might fit the bill. Well under £300, all tube and with a really good master volume, takes pedals very well but will keep up with any gig. Was surprised when I got it how good it sounded at ‘bedroom’ levels! Other than that I can vouch for the VHT at home, though it didn’t keep up at gig levels. 

JezWynd

pottolom said:

JezWynd said:

thecolourbox said:

Will definitely follow this thread as I'd like to find something similar to replace my Princeton

Do you find the Princeton too much for home use?

OP: I can highly recommend the VHT Special 6 Ultra. I moved it on eventually as it lacked reverb but it was a very good combo, the 12" speaker made a big improvement and it was a good substitute for the Princeton which I'd had previously. The Ultra channel could be slightly noisy but I found running the standard channel with a drive pedal (Gain Changer) did everything I required.

Thanks! That's useful to know. So you found the Special 6 Ultra did a convincing, clean blackface sound? My understanding is that it's also great for tweed champ sounds too.....? I wouldn't be very interested in the really high-gain stuff it can do, so I do wonder if the standard Special 6 might be better for my needs.

I don't know much about Tweed vs Blackface but the Special 6 did a very similar clean sound to my Princeton, perhaps not quite as complex harmonically but close. The real advantage of the Ultra in my eyes was the 12" speaker, just sounded bigger. It's a while since I had it but iirc the Ultra implementation was a bit clunky, you had to plug into the Ultra channel separately. Wasn't an issue for me as I prefered the clean low gain side. They're good looking amps in the flesh, quite lightweight, thanks to the ply cabinet, with a quality feel all around.

If you're thinking about the Special 6, then perhaps the head version might be worth considering - that way you could choose a bigger cabinet.

p90fool

For your current purposes I'd honestly stay put. 

Don't allow your curiosity to make you buy something which is actually less suitable, unless you want to keep your current amp and experiment with a spare one. 

pottolom

p90fool said:

For your current purposes I'd honestly stay put. 

Don't allow your curiosity to make you buy something which is actually less suitable, unless you want to keep your current amp and experiment with a spare one. 

Yeah, having spent some time reading around the subject this morning, I think you're probably right. For my budget, and given my needs (something that sounds good at low volume, etc), I don't think I'm going to find anything 'better' than the Superchamp. It's also got some decent (digital) effects built in, and the amp models do a reasonable Vox sound, etc. Plus, it looks nice and isn't very big, which keeps my wife happy. I'll probably just stick with it.

Dominic

I think the amp you have is amazing..........I had one and did the Eminence Ragin Cajun speaker upgrade and it was a superb little amp on channel 1 ........the modelling side is ok for a bit of fun .......ie OK from afar but far from OK !
 The clean channel through a decent speaker (stock one is shit ) is as good as any NON VINTAGE Princeton especially if you put some NOS valves in there ..........I would go so far as to say you would need to buy a Carr Rambler or a Tone King Imperial to really notice any difference unless you are gigging and simply need more volume but with an efficient speaker it can get pretty loud and still stay reasonably clean............modded up a bit it's a spectacular amp

ICBM

The interesting thing is that contrary to what you might think, the clean channel goes through the DSP as well...

Dominic

I never knew that .........was always told it was stand alone pure.....sure you're right tho

ICBM

I was surprised too, because it does sound very ‘natural’, and it’s kept as a separate channel with its own control - but the schematic shows it going through the DSP board.

borntohang

I really like my X2 as a grab and go amp. Bit underpowered for gigging unfortunately but I've got a lot of studio use out of it so far. If they do an X3 I'd like the option for a second modelling channel and maybe 20/25 watts of power instead.

Funkfingers

57Deluxe said:

the trick with the SCXD models is to use external drive(s)

+1  Connect something like a MESA Boogie V-Twin pedal to the X2's FX Return socket.

pottolom said:

I don't think I'm going to find anything 'better' than the Superchamp [X2].

There is always the original Rivera-designed, all-valve Super Champ but that is probably over budget.