Are we raising a generation of wimps?

Budgie

There’s kids playing outside around here and it’s snowing quite a bit. There’s hardly any traffic on the roads though. I dropped my wife off at work this morning which is about 8 miles away and the car park was pretty empty. Maybe it’s the adults who are the wimps?

BRISTOL86

Budgie said:

There’s kids playing outside around here and it’s snowing quite a bit. There’s hardly any traffic on the roads though. I dropped my wife off at work this morning which is about 8 miles away and the car park was pretty empty. Maybe it’s the adults who are the wimps?

Quite. One of the most read stories on the BBC page today is entitled:

’It’s snowing : can I refuse to go to work?’ 

stickyfiddle

I don't understand how this conversation happens every year. 

In Scandinavia, they have a saying which boils down to "there is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing". i.e. nothing is a real problem if you're prepared for it. Equally, they know they'll get 4-6 months of snow every year and prepare accordingly. We drove through a proper life-endangering blizzard in January in Iceland because we had a massive van with the right tyres on it. Proper prep, no problem.

In the UK, it's generally accepted that for a couple of days a year everything will shut down because snow will come and fuck everyone's shit up. That's accepted (despite this seemingly endless whinging) because it's not worth investing millions to protect against losing productivity for 3 days a year. Especially since half the population can actually do their jobs from home anyway these days. 

The UAE is the same, only with rain. We get about 10 days of rain each winter, usually no issue, but once or twice it's huge and everything floods and 10% of the population has a car accident because they don't know how to deal with it. But that doesn't make it worth spending millions on almost-redundant drainage systems

Maybe just enjoy the change, and go have a snowball fight like any sensible adult who doesn't take themselves too seriously?

exocet

Bottom line is that as a country we aren't set up to deal with snow because it doesn't happen often enough.
Transport is a real issue because in general a large percentage have to travel long distances to get to work. Sometimes the roads are relatively clear but depending upon the car that you drive it can get stuck. Even if most people used winter tyres, you could still get roads blocked by those that don't.

So we could do the Northern European thing and mandate that all road users have Winter Tyres in place by November each year....pretty sure that there'd be no outcry against that We could also quadruple the spend on road clearing equipment but I bet there'd be push back on the increased taxation levels required to fund it. 

In practice, we'll simply accept the situation, moan about it for a few days and likely there won't be any snow next winter.

FX_Munkee

BRISTOL86 said:

Budgie said:

There’s kids playing outside around here and it’s snowing quite a bit. There’s hardly any traffic on the roads though. I dropped my wife off at work this morning which is about 8 miles away and the car park was pretty empty. Maybe it’s the adults who are the wimps?

Quite. One of the most read stories on the BBC page today is entitled:

’It’s snowing : can I refuse to go to work?’ 

It's no good telling me now I'm at work, dammit!

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

I don't understand how this conversation happens every year. 

In Scandinavia, they have a saying which boils down to "there is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing". i.e. nothing is a real problem if you're prepared for it. Equally, they know they'll get 4-6 months of snow every year and prepare accordingly. We drove through a proper life-endangering blizzard in January in Iceland because we had a massive van with the right tyres on it. Proper prep, no problem.

In the UK, it's generally accepted that for a couple of days a year everything will shut down because snow will come and fuck everyone's shit up. That's accepted (despite this seemingly endless whinging) because it's not worth investing millions to protect against losing productivity for 3 days a year. Especially since half the population can actually do their jobs from home anyway these days. 

The UAE is the same, only with rain. We get about 10 days of rain each winter, usually no issue, but once or twice it's huge and everything floods and 10% of the population has a car accident because they don't know how to deal with it. But that doesn't make it worth spending millions on almost-redundant drainage systems

Maybe just enjoy the change, and go have a snowball fight like any sensible adult who doesn't take themselves too seriously?

I worked in Denmark ... offices were regularly closed due to bad weather as was the airport when I tried to go to England. Overall they are better prepared but they can still be overwhelmed as in the case of Germany at the moment.

crunchman

Fretwired said:

I worked in Denmark ... offices were regularly closed due to bad weather as was the airport when I tried to go to England. Overall they are better prepared but they can still be overwhelmed as in the case of Germany at the moment.

The difference is that they will have a decent amount of snow.

Around here, we've only had about 2 inches - and that's over nearly 48 hours, not all in one go.  To have that close all the local schools is ridiculous.

Legionreturns

Work has to carry on at the farm... I guess we're digging our way through to the cow shed! 

Roland

“The past is a another country. They do things differently there.”

When I were a lad teachers and pupils lived close, and walked to school. Two pupils sometimes couldn’t make it because even the tractor couldn’t get down their farm lane. It was similar with getting to work. There were times that the bus, and some cars, couldn’t get up the hill. The reason we didn’t close the schools In those days was that there was no way of telling people it was closed. No local radio. Lots of people didn’t have ‘phones.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I don't understand how this conversation happens every year. 

In Scandinavia, they have a saying which boils down to "there is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing". i.e. nothing is a real problem if you're prepared for it. Equally, they know they'll get 4-6 months of snow every year and prepare accordingly. We drove through a proper life-endangering blizzard in January in Iceland because we had a massive van with the right tyres on it. Proper prep, no problem.

In the UK, it's generally accepted that for a couple of days a year everything will shut down because snow will come and fuck everyone's shit up. That's accepted (despite this seemingly endless whinging) because it's not worth investing millions to protect against losing productivity for 3 days a year. Especially since half the population can actually do their jobs from home anyway these days. 

The UAE is the same, only with rain. We get about 10 days of rain each winter, usually no issue, but once or twice it's huge and everything floods and 10% of the population has a car accident because they don't know how to deal with it. But that doesn't make it worth spending millions on almost-redundant drainage systems

Maybe just enjoy the change, and go have a snowball fight like any sensible adult who doesn't take themselves too seriously?

I worked in Denmark ... offices were regularly closed due to bad weather as was the airport when I tried to go to England. Overall they are better prepared but they can still be overwhelmed as in the case of Germany at the moment.

Exactly. Similar climates to the UK, being somewhere between Spain and Sweden. It's a completely rational way of dealing with a few days of shitty weather.

crunchman

Legionreturns said:

Work has to carry on at the farm... I guess we're digging our way through to the cow shed! 

I think that's why I'm so annoyed at how much disruption a relatively small amount of snow has caused in our cities.

I grew up on a farm, and I saw all the effort that went into getting the milk out in the winters of 1977 and 1978.  The snow then drifted so the road was completely blocked.  It was up to the top of the hedgerows on the road - at least 12' deep in places.  They still got the milk out to a place in the valley where they met the tanker.

We have 2" in London and all the schools are closed.  It's a completely different mentality.

Bridgehouse

It’s about a developing society, though, isn’t it.

I would agree that the ambulance-chasing legal firms with their “sue now ask questions later for no cash up front” needs dealing with.. 

But, every year people die in bad weather - whether it’s the elderly through cold, car accidents (3 people died about 10 miles from me in a weather related crash on Tuesday) or people falling through ice in lakes or rivers.

If “those in authority” do nothing then there’s criticism. When they do tho, there’s criticism. 

People have just got used to a society where they expect no unnecessary injury or death (“this shouldn’t be allowed to happen in the 21st century”) but complete freedom to do what they like (“its health and safety gone mad”)

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

In the UK, it's generally accepted that for a couple of days a year everything will shut down because snow will come and fuck everyone's shit up. That's accepted (despite this seemingly endless whinging) because it's not worth investing millions to protect against losing productivity for 3 days a year. Especially since half the population can actually do their jobs from home anyway these days.

Exactly. It wasn't even really worth me buying a set of winter tyres for my car - I tried the 4WD mode properly this morning and it was usable on standard tyres even in nearly a foot of snow. OK not going fast, but for simply getting to the shops that doesn't matter. I can work from home for a few days, I do half my work from here anyway.

If it was going to be like this for weeks every year I'd get winter tyres... but that's £500 that it currently isn't worth me spending.

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

stickyfiddle said:

In the UK, it's generally accepted that for a couple of days a year everything will shut down because snow will come and fuck everyone's shit up. That's accepted (despite this seemingly endless whinging) because it's not worth investing millions to protect against losing productivity for 3 days a year. Especially since half the population can actually do their jobs from home anyway these days.

Exactly. It wasn't even really worth me buying a set of winter tyres for my car - I tried the 4WD mode properly this morning and it was usable on standard tyres even in nearly a foot of snow. OK not going fast, but for simply getting to the shops that doesn't matter. I can work from home for a few days, I do half my work from here anyway.

If it was going to be like this for weeks every year I'd get winter tyres... but that's £500 that it currently isn't worth me spending.

And another £500 for a spare set of wheels if you are going to get the most out of them and not have the faff of swapping them over..

crunchman

The problem is that you need to try to instill some common sense into people.  You don't go on the ice as there is a risk you could fall through.  When you drive, you drive according to the conditions.  That's not just snow.  I remember driving on the motorway in a monster rain storm years ago at about 35mph because of how bad it was.  Most others were driving at a similar speed, but there were people hooning up the outside lane at stupid speeds when they probably couldn't see more than 15 metres in front of their cars.

There needs to be some kind of acceptance that you can't Health and Safety all risk out of existence for idiots.

Budgie

ICBM said:

stickyfiddle said:

In the UK, it's generally accepted that for a couple of days a year everything will shut down because snow will come and fuck everyone's shit up. That's accepted (despite this seemingly endless whinging) because it's not worth investing millions to protect against losing productivity for 3 days a year. Especially since half the population can actually do their jobs from home anyway these days.

Exactly. It wasn't even really worth me buying a set of winter tyres for my car - I tried the 4WD mode properly this morning and it was usable on standard tyres even in nearly a foot of snow. OK not going fast, but for simply getting to the shops that doesn't matter. I can work from home for a few days, I do half my work from here anyway.

If it was going to be like this for weeks every year I'd get winter tyres... but that's £500 that it currently isn't worth me spending.

I have all terrain tyres (Yokohama Geolandar) on my 4x4, which are decent and pretty quiet on road and decent off road and grippy in snow, so am covered for all eventualities. I just leave them on all year and they are fine. It seems daft having a set of tyres just for Winter.

Bridgehouse

crunchman said:

The problem is that you need to try to instill some common sense into people.  You don't go on the ice as there is a risk you could fall through.  When you drive, you drive according to the conditions.  That's not just snow.  I remember driving on the motorway in a monster rain storm years ago at about 35mph because of how bad it was.  Most others were driving at a similar speed, but there were people hooning up the outside lane at stupid speeds when they probably couldn't see more than 15 metres in front of their cars.

There needs to be some kind of acceptance that you can't Health and Safety all risk out of existence for idiots.

I always thought the Darwin Awards were an extension of the H&S legislation at the extreme end..

Sporky

Bridgehouse said:

ICBM said:

If it was going to be like this for weeks every year I'd get winter tyres... but that's £500 that it currently isn't worth me spending.

And another £500 for a spare set of wheels if you are going to get the most out of them and not have the faff of swapping them over..

I think you're overestimating the price of a set of steel wheels - or even used alloys.

My winters were £160 each on steels, and they were Alpin 4s, so decent ones.

Crossclimate+ are probably sensible in the UK; they work fine all year, and they massively outperform summer tyres on snow. A proper winter tyre has the edge on snow, but isn't as good the rest of the time.

Bridgehouse

Sporky said:

Bridgehouse said:

ICBM said:

If it was going to be like this for weeks every year I'd get winter tyres... but that's £500 that it currently isn't worth me spending.

And another £500 for a spare set of wheels if you are going to get the most out of them and not have the faff of swapping them over..

I think you're overestimating the price of a set of steel wheels - or even used alloys.

My winters were £160 each on steels, and they were Alpin 4s, so decent ones.

Crossclimate+ are probably sensible in the UK; they work fine all year, and they massively outperform summer tyres on snow. A proper winter tyre has the edge on snow, but isn't as good the rest of the time.

To be fair, the last set I got were for a Jag XF - and topped £1k all in. Then again, it was about £500 just to clean the bastard thing. 

Sporky

Ah.

Yes. Big winter tyres and wheels aren't cheap - fair point. Mine were 16s.