Combining Celestions in (2) 1x12's - suggested pairings?

albanov

I've recently acquired a very nice matamp 1x12 cab from @davedave. Sounds great. I'd like to use it as an extension cab for my (1x12) Matamp King St. combo, which will mean swapping out the speaker (8ohm currently) for a 16ohm one - just trying to decide what that will be.

The cab is marked 'V30' on the rear, so that would be the obvious choice of replacement. However the combo is currently fitted with a G12 Century Vintage, which I understand to be a neo version of the V30, so presumably they won't sound that distinct? Something with a different/complimentary sound would be good.

I've had a search around and found this list of suggested pairings from the Celestion site:

G12H Anniversary / Celestion Blue

Celestion Gold / Vintage 30

Heritage Series G12M / Heritage Series G12H(55)

G12M Greenback / Vintage 30

Vintage 30 / G12T-75

The Gold, or a Creamback, plus the G12 Century Vintage I've got (or a V30) sounds an interesting combination. Any thoughts / suggestions? I'm not dead set on keeping the G12, I like it, and the light weight is great, but open to changing things around too.

Sounds-wise I'm probably looking for a bit of an all rounder. I don't play super high-gain metal or very clean jazz etc, just looking for a fairly versatile 'rock' sound I suppose.  

davedave

Hi matey.
Glad it arrived safe.

If you have a look on lean business or hotrox they list the specs.
Aim for something with the same sensitivity (db). I'm pretty sure that that is the measure of volume. 3db difference might not sound much, but it really is.
I think v30s are 99db. Have a look at Taydens. The high Brit is 99db.

The other thing to watch is getting something of the same wattage as the amps power gets split equally between the speakers.

My knowledge on this is fairly limited, so second opinions may well prove to be a good idea.
Dave.

ecc83

A Gold plus a Neo would be an interesting combination but I have had little sonic experience of either (lugs are not up to differentiating speakers anyway!).

The Gold is VERY sensitive! Even louder than a V30 I found on a very short test. The Century is a dB or so behind a V30 IIRC?

Dave.

digitalkettle

Inspired by the Dr Z Z-Wreck cab, I paired a Gold with a Blue (two 1x12"s) for my MAZ Jr NR...I don't think I got a more complex 'texture'...just a bit more spread. Usually, I only lug one to a gig (favouring the Gold).

I think Gold with an H30 is supposed to be popular.

ICBM

The Century Vintage sounds nothing like a V30 at all - it's much thinner and brighter. The V30 is very chunky and midrangy. They would probably sound quite good together actually.

Combinations I really like...

G12H-30/G12M-25
V30/Classic Lead 80
V30/Gold
V30/G12T-75

Combinations I don't like...

V30/G12M-25 (too mismatched for power, too similar tonally so it sounds unbalanced, the V30 dominates)
V30/G12H-30 (just because it's too mismatched for power, it sounds OK)

The power rating issue is fine as long as the total (double the lower-rated speaker, not the sum of the two) is less than the amp, but it still seems counterproductive to me to make a pair which has a lower (or even the same) rating as one of the speakers by itself... especially when it results in a speaker which does like being pushed hard (like a V30) being limited by one that doesn't (like a G12H-30).

G12H-30/Blue is good despite the 2:1 rating difference because the Blue likes being thrashed.

I haven't tried the M (65W) and H (75W) Creambacks yet, but I'd bet they will sound good together too.

Matamp also seem to like the G12T-100 'Hot 100', which is quite middy like a G12M-25, although it sounds a bit 'flatter' to me. Might sound good with the Century and is cheap...

albanov

Thanks all, good stuff. Sounds like a V30 would be a good place to start. Then maybe a Gold when I'm feeling a bit more flush. 

Celestion lists the V30's sensitivity as 100db, same as the Gold. The G12 century vintage is 98db.  I've read that no more than a 2-3db difference should be ok, does that sound about right?

Dave_Mc

Pretty much agree with ICBM (though I haven't tried the CV, alnico gold, blue or hot 100). And I didn't really like the v30/g12m for most applications but for a few it sounded good I thought (it was too middy and honky for most situations). And the v30/g12h30 sounds really good too, IMO, just the wattage problem he mentioned- I haven't tried it but the creamback version of the g12h30 should solve that, assuming (big assumption!) it sounds close to the g12h30.

ICBM

albanov said:

Thanks all, good stuff. Sounds like a V30 would be a good place to start. Then maybe a Gold when I'm feeling a bit more flush. 

Celestion lists the V30's sensitivity as 100db, same as the Gold. The G12 century vintage is 98db.  I've read that no more than a 2-3db difference should be ok, does that sound about right?

Yes, but it depends on the frequency response (ie tone). The more similar the response, the more important that they're about the same sensitivity, or the louder one dominates and the quieter one gets lost. If they're quite different, you hear the different sounds and it's much less important if one is louder.

That's why mixes like the V30/G12T-75 work well even though the V30 is a lot louder by itself… and why the V30/G12M-25 doesn't - they don't sound the same by any means, but they do have broadly the same frequency response and as a result the V30 dominates. It's certainly true that Matchless use this combination, but their V30s are special-ordered and sound quite a lot different from standard ones, somewhat closer to a G12H-30.

Generally a more midrangy, slightly dirty-sounding speaker (eg G12M-25) sounds louder for a given sensitivity than a cleaner, deeper one (eg G12H-30), so if you mix a G12M-25 with a G12H-30 the result is a good match even though on paper, the H30 is more sensitive.

Sometimes there's no substitute for just trying it, either - I didn't actually expect the V30/G12T-75 mix to sound good, until I heard it. I thought the V30 would drown out the 75, because it's both louder *and* more midrangy… but it doesn't.

albanov

Thanks, thats very helpful. Have a much clearer idea of the subject now, time to buy some speakers...

ArchtopDave

I have a 65 Amps Lil Elvis Combo with a G12H-30; I bought their extension cab with an Alnico Blue in it. The combination is very good indeed with the Alnico Blue adding a bit extra to the overall sound.

longjaw

Has any manufacturer made a guitar amp with different size speakers - ie 10" together with a 12" or a 15"?

ICBM

Yes. Gibson did with 10s and 12s. 12s and 15s together have been used for bass, but I don't know of any for guitar.

Moltisanti

i have a V30 en route to pair with a T75, supposedly they compliment eachother very well.

mudslide73

^^ They do but the V30 is loads more efficient than a T75 - you'd think it'd get drowned out but it's definitely there. I think it can depend on the amp too.

I'm running a V30/G12H-30 mix and I think it sounds great. I've run them with an 18w as a pair and now run a 50w Marshall 2502 with a 1922 with the same mix as a quad (v30s in the combo and H's in the cab).. but as @ICBM says they don't really work together once the G12H-30 gets up towards it's rating. As you can see from my rig though I've never really pushed them that far.

octatonic

I have a Gold and a V30 in one cab.

They work brilliantly together.

I'd like to blend a Gold and a G12-65 or a cream back at some stage too.

ICBM

mudslide73 said:

^^ They do but the V30 is loads more efficient than a T75 - you'd think it'd get drowned out but it's definitely there. I think it can depend on the amp too.

It probably depends on the cab - I've only heard it in closed-back cabs, and it sounds great. I'm not convinced (without trying it) that it would work in an open-back cab - in a closed cab, the deep hollow sound of the 75 really comes into its own and it fills out the bottom end the V30 doesn't have, which is presumably why it doesn't get drowned out. In an open cab the bottom end isn't really there in the same way, so I suspect the 75 would sound quieter and the more aggressive sound of the V30 would simply dominate.

But if anyone has tried it in an open cab and found it works well I will be happy to be wrong! I was about the combination originally.

Dave_Mc

^ I've only tried it in a closed-back cab too.

octatonic

^ me too.

Moltisanti

The v30 arrived today so half my 4x12 has the v30 /t75 combo, the other half has 2 t75s. The side with the v30 sounds massively better.

longjaw

I have a Heritage G12-65 and am thinking of pairing it with a 1970's G12S Goldback.

Anyone tried a G12S? They seem quite cheap compared to G12Ms and G12Hs from the same era, is it because their power handling is only 20W?

ICBM

longjaw said:

Anyone tried a G12S? They seem quite cheap compared to G12Ms and G12Hs from the same era, is it because their power handling is only 20W?

And because they have lower sensitivity and a more 'lightweight' tone.

I actually think they're very nice-sounding speakers, if you don't want a classic heavier 'rock' tone - they have a bright, jangly sound - they're especially ideal if you want to 'tame' a too-loud amp. They sound nice in AC30s if you want to drive the amp at lower volume, not too far from a Blue in tone but much quieter.