Gray Guitars (Andertons video)

Strangefan

meltedbuzzbox said:

Strangefan said:

3k for a bolt on solid body is laughable, no matter the perceived quality imho

As opposed to a cnc neck glued to a cnc body?




nope lol in my opinion no solid body is worth 3k plus..... 

FelineGuitars

I haven't had the chance to play any of his guitars and Tom seemed a nice chap when I met him.

We discovered it's a small world as his wife Phoebe did work experience at the music shop in Surbiton where my workshop was back in 1998. 

I think having Pink Floyd sideman Tim Renwick as your father-in-law may open certain doors, but not without making great product, but Tom has made lots of good moves and also getting his stuff into Andertons  won't have hurt at all. 

ennspek

Strangefan said:

3k for a bolt on solid body is laughable, no matter the perceived quality imho

This is a boring argument. How much extra does a glued in neck or neck through add?

It is what is. I don't disagree but the bolt on neck argument is lazy.

Guitars are just expensive, unless you love them.

Strangefan

ennspek said:

Strangefan said:

3k for a bolt on solid body is laughable, no matter the perceived quality imho

This is a boring argument. How much extra does a glued in neck or neck through add?

It is what is. I don't disagree but the bolt on neck argument is lazy.

Guitars are just expensive, unless you love them.

It's a less labour intensive product designed for being cheaper production wise.... 

Guitars are just expensive, unless you love them" 
And this is a valid is it? How daft 

jeztone2

FelineGuitars said:

I haven't had the chance to play any of his guitars and Tom seemed a nice chap when I met him.

We discovered it's a small world as his wife Phoebe did work experience at the music shop in Surbiton where my workshop was back in 1998. 

I think having Pink Floyd sideman Tim Renwick as your father-in-law may open certain doors, but not without making great product, but Tom has made lots of good moves and also getting his stuff into Andertons  won't have hurt at all. 

His dad was Nigel Gray who produced the Police. 

I dunno, not my thing. But good luck to him. 

gazrichards

Strangefan said:

ennspek said:

Strangefan said:

3k for a bolt on solid body is laughable, no matter the perceived quality imho

This is a boring argument. How much extra does a glued in neck or neck through add?

It is what is. I don't disagree but the bolt on neck argument is lazy.

Guitars are just expensive, unless you love them.

It's a less labour intensive product designed for being cheaper production wise.... 

Guitars are just expensive, unless you love them" 
And this is a valid is it? How daft 

I’d say it’s the most valid argument of all. I bet every single one of us has had at least one conversation where we talk excitedly about our new guitar only to be met with rolling eyes and gasps when we mention the cost. I have that conversation once a week I think. 

Also it would be interesting how many of the guys saying they are fed up with boring traditional designs, are actually using something non traditional and if they paid 3k for it. Literally putting your money where you mouth is (ok, the mouth bit is less literal) rather than just talking shit on the internet!

GoldenEraGuitars

Quick, hurry.. someone phone the Fender CS and tell them to stop churning out guitars that retail for £3k + because apparently they’re overpriced and no one wants them. Oh, wait..

Loobs

That headstock :-( 

More expensive Fender copies? Yawn. What about a bit of originality? I'm sure they're fine instruments but I don't really see the point of starting yet another company to build boutique Fender copies...whatever floats your boat, I guess. I'm sure there are plenty of rich boomers in South West London to buy them.  
 

Loobs

Danielsguitars said:

try selling something that isn't mainstream, you'll starve, even damien p said to me ages ago make strats and teles and you'll stay in business

All i get asked for is vintage based stuff which is where my passion is anyway, it's win win for me

Yes, but to play devil's advocate, this is a bit of a lazy attitude and sends the message that unless you build Strat/Tele copies you can't make any money, which isn't 100% true. There are independent smaller builders out there making idiosyncratic guitars who aren't starving.

DrHungry

ct8282 said:

The real shame is the quality control from Gray Guitars. I dropped £3.2k on a custom build Emporer model just over a year ago. After waiting 6 months for the build the quality of the instrument was appalling.  Tom’s had the guitar back 3 times, and even replaced the neck completely (another 2 month wait), and I’ve just had it back and there’s still problems.

Such a shame.  The guitar plays fantastically but my experience has been terrible.  Over £3k on a guitar and it’s clear that he simply doesn’t spend a sufficient amount of time checking his instruments, or he doesn’t care.  I’m at the point of considering talking to trading standards.

Almost my first ever post, I'd like to chime in with my experience of Gray Guitars, seeing as there are not that many real world reviews out there at all, YouTube guitarists aside, and one .

I can completely understand that spending £3k+ on an instrument and it being anything less than perfect is pretty soul destroying, let alone having to send it back 3 times and it still not be up to scratch, however...my experience was completely the opposite of this.

I ordered one about a year ago, found Tom to be helpful and enthusiastic and seemed to genuinely care and take pride in his work. He usually replied to my emails within a few hours, spent a long time on the phone with me discussing pickups, sent a ton of pictures back and forth to get the finish just the right colour and acquiesced to my PITA requests such as the colour of the decal, the angle of the pickup switch and the degree of fingerboard edge rolling. I couldn't be happier with the finished article, it's literally the only electric guitar I have played and have wanted to play in the 6 months I've had it. It arrived set up perfectly, as I'd have hoped given part of the cost goes towards the PLEK process and with it's oil/wax finished neck and the satin nitro lacquer that's already sinking into the grain it feels in the best possible way that I've already owned it for years 

I've no affiliation other than being a customer and I have no frame of reference of Gray Guitars other than the one guitar I ordered from him. I don't know if I was an exceptionally lucky one or ct8282 was exceptionally unlucky, but that's my experience and hopefully it's helpful to someone who might be considering one.

As for whether it's worth spending that amount on this or any guitar, that's a different kettle of fish. I went for Gray Guitars because it was a small UK business that seemed to focus on Fender designs with a modern take, such as the Music Man style oil/wax neck that I was particularly keen on and didn't seem to be an easily available option from the big F themselves or the other's I'd looked at. I'm sure that many would not choose to spend their money on something so costly from a relatively unknown maker with a polarising headstock, just as I would not choose to spend mine on something from a faceless large corporation that looks like it's been dragged backwards through a thorny hedge (no offense to those who enjoy a relic'd look!), but I guess that's all part of the rich tapestry of the human condition.

Here's my guitar by the way:
https://imgur.com/gallery/jPwmHIo

Voxman

I must admit, I'm very much a traditionalist.  I still think the Stratocaster is iconic and aesthetically the 'sexiest' guitar ever made, the Telecaster is timeless, and the Les Paul is just pure classic rock machine (even though it was designed for a jazz guitarist!). 

Having said that, I have 3 guitars that stray from those shapes a little.  PRS Cu24, Yamaha Pacifica 611 VFM, and Patrick Eggle Berlin Pro.  But the key theme is I like curves and not sharp edges, hence the Gibson Flying V and Explorer are not for me. The only guitar I have that remotely has a pointier look to it is my Gibson SG Standard which has pointed horns. 

So if I was going to ever veer away from a Fender or Gibson or PRS, I'd still want those basic shapes simply because they suit me and I'm comfortable with them, rather than something 'nouveaux'.  And I suspect that the majority of folk are similar and which is why those body shapes, albeit with some refinements like neck heel, are used, because the potential market is simpler so much larger. 

Danielsguitars

Loobs said:

Danielsguitars said:

try selling something that isn't mainstream, you'll starve, even damien p said to me ages ago make strats and teles and you'll stay in business

All i get asked for is vintage based stuff which is where my passion is anyway, it's win win for me

Yes, but to play devil's advocate, this is a bit of a lazy attitude and sends the message that unless you build Strat/Tele copies you can't make any money, which isn't 100% true. There are independent smaller builders out there making idiosyncratic guitars who aren't starving.

Well I've gone and built some this year just to see what I do and don't like but won't be building more unless it's a commission now, I like to mix various bits from what I like and make something different but familiar enough but workshop makeover is next 

GoldenEraGuitars

Loobs said:

Danielsguitars said:

try selling something that isn't mainstream, you'll starve, even damien p said to me ages ago make strats and teles and you'll stay in business

All i get asked for is vintage based stuff which is where my passion is anyway, it's win win for me

Yes, but to play devil's advocate, this is a bit of a lazy attitude and sends the message that unless you build Strat/Tele copies you can't make any money, which isn't 100% true. There are independent smaller builders out there making idiosyncratic guitars who aren't starving.

It’s maybe not 100% true.. but it’s up there. This is where opinions on an Internet forum vs reality clash. It’s easy to type out an opinion, it’s not particularly easy living the reality that if you don’t give the paying customer what he/she wants you won’t make money. 

I had 3 headstock designs done after my C&D from Fender. Surprisingly the one that was closest to the Fender shape won (customers were asked for their opinions). 

Tom anderson
Suhr
Exotic
Ibanez
Jackson
Charvel

Some quick off the top of my head large manufacturers who build strats with different headstocks. The guitar world would look a little different without them. 

Loobs

I know what you're saying. I just think it's a shame to dismiss the other builders doing more interesting (objectively) stuff and making a living out of it. They are out there. You need some imagination, a USP, good business acumen and know how to work social media to your advantage. Some brands that come to mind: Deimel, Creston, Kauer, Bilt, Shabbat, Seger...

Voxman

Loobs said:

I know what you're saying. I just think it's a shame to dismiss the other builders doing more interesting (objectively) stuff and making a living out of it. They are out there. You need some imagination, a USP, good business acumen and know how to work social media to your advantage. Some brands that come to mind: Deimel, Creston, Kauer, Bilt, Shabbat, Seger...

No one is dismissing them, and clearly there is sufficient interest for all these bespoke builders to make a living. Conversely there is nothing wrong in bringing your own take on a classic design, as Grays are doing. Ultimately, its the customer who decides what they want to buy, and as long as demand is there for both approaches, I really don't see the problem.  

Loobs

No problem. Was just stating my opinion. 

Moe_Zambeek

Mmm yes..  Creston builds Fender copies, Deimel builds offsets pretty close to a Fender, Kauer mainly builds Firebirds, Bilt build Coronado and other Fender copies, Shabbat makes mildly wonky Fenders...

That’s a list that seems to validate exactly what @Danielsguitars says...

They do al make nice guitars but they’re not Ritter or Teuffel or Whatever. 

Loobs

I think that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it. All of those builders specialise in stuff that's quite a bit more esoteric than Gray Guitars...and will build you pretty much anything within the boundaries of using one of their standard body shapes. 

Philly_Q

gazrichards said:

Also it would be interesting how many of the guys saying they are fed up with boring traditional designs, are actually using something non traditional and if they paid 3k for it. Literally putting your money where you mouth is (ok, the mouth bit is less literal) rather than just talking shit on the internet!

All my most expensive guitars (I think I've only once paid over £3k) have been Fender CS, Gibson CS or PRS (I guess PRS would count as boring and traditional?).  I've had a Nik Huber and a Tyler but didn't pay vast amounts for them.

If I was looking at something pricey now, then I guess Gibson CS and PRS would be in the picture again, but I'd also be seriously thinking about Eggle, Feline and Probett, who all build things based on traditional designs but put their own spin on them.  The non-traditional elements are part of the appeal.  I have to say I wouldn't be looking at anything really wacky like a Relish.

Danielsguitars

Loobs said:

I think that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it. All of those builders specialise in stuff that's quite a bit more esoteric than Gray Guitars...and will build you pretty much anything within the boundaries of using one of their standard body shapes. 

It's all very similar imo, just using ready made recognisable shapes with slight twists, same as I do and most others, because it works for the vast majority of bespoke builders, i found if I used a 3 a side headstock on a strat shape that is not well received so I go from the g side and mix f style into my set necks which is what I like anyway