Oh Dear - A very sad story

Gassage · May 2018

@WezV I know his basses are very highly thought of. Wasn’t he a bit of an active circuit pioneer?

WezV · May 2018

not so much active, at least i don;t think so. Read the catalogue i posted above. He believed the most important factor was a stable neck and all tone shaping came from the wiring. Its one i often bring up in the tonewood debates as I think its totally possible to factor out the wood by choosing a stable and consistent species to build from... he chose rock maple. I think he preferred to start bright and use the tone shaping to do the rest

when mine turned up it had missing wood from the jack socket and a couple of massive splits going right through the body. clearly it had suffered a massive impact and been stored badly, the finish had a lot of water damage and was peeling off in razor sharp chips... and yet it played really well and stayed in tune. weight was only 9lbs.

its since had a full refurb and nitro refinish
- a long term labour of love

SteveRobinson · May 2018

guitars4you said:

I'm picking up an early 60's ES345 in a few days time, that @SteveRobinson has been renovating for me - The previous owner, probably with a compass, scratched his name on the rear of the headstock

The new maple board looks superb!

WezV · May 2018

SteveRobinson said:

guitars4you said:

I'm picking up an early 60's ES345 in a few days time, that @SteveRobinson has been renovating for me - The previous owner, probably with a compass, scratched his name on the rear of the headstock

The new maple board looks superb!

I can just imagine the big “Manchester Guitar Tech” sticker put over the Gibson logo

WezV · May 2018

I must confess, part of me was tempted to put my logo on the JB rebuild. It would be an authentic thing to do

HarrySeven · May 2018

Paul_C said:

guitars4you said:

Further update - I've just had contact with someone who has actually seen this instrument today, or in the last day or so, along with my comments on FB - It sounds worse than my initial reporting - his comments below

Yeah I've seen it (oh my eyes) and played it. Along with the 6 volume tone knobs its got 3 red micro switches ( but massive ones). It's got metal caps covering where the tail piece studs were. Three pickups that looked forced into the body. Lots of extra scratch plates everywhere and one bent tuner.

That sounds like something that @HarrySeven would love to own.

Yes indeedy!

Guitar_Slinger · May 2018

ICBM said:

guitarfishbay said:

They did the mods because that's what John Birch told them they wanted at the time.

FTFY.

Guitar_Slinger said:

I had lessons from somebody who played a 1963 Strat in a band in the 70s. He said the original bridge made it go badly out of tune if a string snapped mid-song, so he got it changed for one which he said knocked "a few grand" off its value. But as @guitarfishbay said, it was a mod to make it playable to a musician on tour.

So why didn’t he just set the bridge flat to the body? Not only non-destructive, far easier...

That’s something that seems to be common to quite a lot of damage to guitars - not only the wrong solution, but more difficult than the right solution.

Probably the same reason somebody drilled a hole in Francis Rossi's Tele.

p90fool · May 2018

WezV said:

equalsql said:

I'm suprised that there isn't some financial value to the John Birch 'mojo' nowadays..

there is.

There certainly is, in the case of my Strat it was about minus four grand.

guitars4you · May 2018

WezV said:

SteveRobinson said:

guitars4you said:

I'm picking up an early 60's ES345 in a few days time, that @SteveRobinson has been renovating for me - The previous owner, probably with a compass, scratched his name on the rear of the headstock

The new maple board looks superb!

I can just imagine the big “Manchester Guitar Tech” sticker put over the Gibson logo

certainly - especially as I wished to preserve it

WezV · May 2018

p90fool said:

WezV said:

equalsql said:

I'm suprised that there isn't some financial value to the John Birch 'mojo' nowadays..

there is.

There certainly is, in the case of my Strat it was about minus four grand.

Well yeah, the JB modded fenders and Gibsons are all worth substantially less, just like any modded vintage guitar done by any tech.

There is still value in the John Birch name, just not when its applied to a Fender

ESBlonde · May 2018

I well remember going into the local used guitar emporium one Saturday morning in the late 1970s to be handed a 'Purple' LP type with a double cut and maple fingerboard. The body festooned with knobs and switches, the neck so skinny a model would have wanted it. Fast playing action, it seemed like every guitarist dream (at the time) yet it hung unsold on the wall for many weeks. It was the classic John B custom of the period. I even hankered after it myself on 'looks' for a while but my paper round wasn't that good.

impmann · May 2018

WezV said:

p90fool said:

WezV said:

equalsql said:

I'm suprised that there isn't some financial value to the John Birch 'mojo' nowadays..

there is.

There certainly is, in the case of my Strat it was about minus four grand.

Well yeah, the JB modded fenders and Gibsons are all worth substantially less, just like any modded vintage guitar done by any tech.

There is still value in the John Birch name, just not when its applied to a Fender Guitar

FTFY

Actually, I've had dealings with a few JB guitars over the years... and had to rewire one from scratch (the owner said it had never worked properly since he brought it home from JB's workshop utterly disappointed).

As for the Brian May guitar - yes, Brian launched it as it would not stay in tune. It was only ever used as a backup and even in this role it was pretty abysmal.
It was restored recently (ish) - details here:

http://www.guytonguitars.com/brian-mays-john-birch-guitar.html

Interestingly, even though its been restored it *still* isn't right due to build issues...

I've owned a few of his pickups too - I bought a Les Paul with the Megaflux or whatever they are called things with millions of screws in the top. In a word... terrible. Toneless things - I sold them and swapped them out for a cheap set of Gibson humbuckers and the guitar was much improved. I got *quite a lot of money* for those pickups - they went to Japan - as there are some nutters who love this stuff.

Bringing this up (or a bit up) to date. I used to look after a JB Star guitar - built after John's death by the workshops. It was fitted with Line6 Variax guts and was hopeless to start with - nothing worked properly. The electronics were one of the biggest lashups I've ever put right and the bridge had been installed in the wrong place, meaning the intonation... wasn't. It took ages to put right, and not a small amount of money, as most of the electronics had to be replaced.

Can you tell I'm a *huge* fan?

WezV · May 2018

impmann said:

WezV said:

There is still value in the John Birch name, just not when its applied to a Fender Guitar

I sold them and swapped them out for a cheap set of Gibson humbuckers and the guitar was much improved. I got *quite a lot of money* for those pickups - they went to Japan - as there are some nutters who love this stuff.

That was my point on value!

I may be one of those nutters because for me its an important part of the history of British guitar building before standard part became the norm.... just like Shergold in that respect.

I must admit, mine came with the normal DiMarzio combo and sounded much better that way than with Hyperfluxes and JB wiring. Although mine was apparently not wired as standard either. Its now got the hyperfluxes and standard wiring( as in totally non JB) which I prefer overall, but it did sound a lot more normal with the standard humbuckers

I have experience with the cruder JB's too, that's how I got a pair of original pickups for mine

Hattigol · May 2018

This clearly needs to be listed on Ebay with the description starting "All original except for..."

guitars4you · May 2018

Hattigol said:

This clearly needs to be listed on Ebay with the description starting "All original except for..."

would be a short story after 'all original except for'

Octafish · May 2018

WezV said:

not so much active, at least i don;t think so. Read the catalogue i posted above. He believed the most important factor was a stable neck and all tone shaping came from the wiring. Its one i often bring up in the tonewood debates as I think its totally possible to factor out the wood by choosing a stable and consistent species to build from... he chose rock maple. I think he preferred to start bright and use the tone shaping to do the rest

when mine turned up it had missing wood from the jack socket and a couple of massive splits going right through the body. clearly it had suffered a massive impact and been stored badly, the finish had a lot of water damage and was peeling off in razor sharp chips... and yet it played really well and stayed in tune. weight was only 9lbs.

Only!

WezV · May 2018

Octafish said:

WezV said:

not so much active, at least i don;t think so. Read the catalogue i posted above. He believed the most important factor was a stable neck and all tone shaping came from the wiring. Its one i often bring up in the tonewood debates as I think its totally possible to factor out the wood by choosing a stable and consistent species to build from... he chose rock maple. I think he preferred to start bright and use the tone shaping to do the rest

when mine turned up it had missing wood from the jack socket and a couple of massive splits going right through the body. clearly it had suffered a massive impact and been stored badly, the finish had a lot of water damage and was peeling off in razor sharp chips... and yet it played really well and stayed in tune. weight was only 9lbs.
Only!

.... For a solid rock maple Les Paul.

GuyR · May 2018

I quite recently bought a JB-ruined 62 slab board jazz bass. The main modification was a replaced maple fretboard. With the addition of a new unlined fretless rosewood board it became something I had always wanted, but would never had the opportunity to own, as only a pre-vandalised instrument is a financially viable basis for such a conversion.
Stood me in for sub-£2k all-in, which seemed OK to me.
1970s horror show modifications can provide interesting opportunities, if you have a particular spec you want which was never made in period.

HarrySeven · May 2018

GuyR said:

1970s horror show modifications can provide interesting opportunities, if you have a particular spec you want which was never made in period.

Have a Wiz, Sir!