Going back to an old-fashioned all analogue board after running a Helix for the past 2 years

Teetonetal

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

Lynched? That's a bit strong.

Helix users are just reacting to being told that helix sounds inferior. To many it doesn't. Discussing difference of opinion and why people have different opinions is far from lynching.

I don't think anyone claims helix is perfect. But inferior in the subjective world of tone is fairly open to dispute.

sgosden

VJIves said:

If I was in a covers band you'd have to pry the helix out of my cold, dead hands as I can't imagine anything more convenient, but I couldn't get on with it at all as a writing tool. Partly that's down to my ADHD which gives me a really hard time menu diving, but when I'm putting my parts together on a home demo I love my board and a shelf of pedals within reach. Live I think there's way less chance of me treading on the wrong thing with pedals. In the middle of a gig I'd end up pressing the wrong snapshot or whatever and I'd find that harder to recover from while I tried to figure out what I'd done, compared to 'oh, I know what that pedal does and I know that it shouldn't be on'. 

But you can look down and see the light is wrong on the wrong (handily labelled switch) and be able to click straight onto the right one... 
Or like I do alot, hear something isn't quite right, so click the Snap I'm meant to be on. It either gets you back to the right setting, or you were on it anyway. 

Tbh I don't really need the customisable lights or scribble strips on my gigging patch, cos I know which snap shots are where without looking. 

peteri

That's a good point, with the upcoming Jam event - one of the great pleasures for me (as I'm new to this) has been actually getting the sound. Thinking 'Ok what amp would they have likely used' and going from there, it's helped me tremendously in learning the songs too.

I have presets with the songs in, and a volume pedal balancing the volume of the aux in - which means I can use my AX8 to practice along with the tracks (at any volume).

So much easier!

The Helix has a decent UI, although I kept hitting the footswitches by mistake and annoying myself. With the Fractal, the AXE Edit is insanely fast - and a joy.

Without either of those, hard work!

Lebarque

John_A said:

Lebarque said:

Snapshots? The ability to change a sound without a pause? WOW! :0)

Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight. Like the chap said above, if digital jiggery pokery floats your boat and gets the tone you want, it's all good. My point is that if you sit down and compare the quality of tone of eg. a Mojovibe with the vibe on the Helix, there is a marked difference.

A snapshot is a lot more than that, it's the ability to change all the settings on every bit of your rig in an instant.

dont know the mojovibe, have only used a space echo briefly, and never owned a real Klon but the Helix versions of all of them sound great.  I'm not fastidious about 'tone' but have ABd a few pedals with Helix models and the differences were so small, if there was any at all.  

Lebarque

Teetonetal said:

Lebarque said:

 OK, here's where I'm at: I a/b'd my vibe, trem, wah, chorus, reverb and delay (I use amp dirt mainly) with the HX effects and my pedals were clearly better. That's not too say that I wasn't impressed with the Helix, but the quality of sound didn't quite match up and inspire me to play and create, like my pedals do. I freely admit that I am spoilt with some really good pedals and amp though. I guess it comes down to priorities. If you are prepared to accept a level of tone for the convenience of the Helix, it's perfect. If, like me, you're willing to accept tap dancing and cables for the ultimate tone, premium pedals are still the way forward at the current time. Give it another few years and I'm sure Line 6 will catch up, but they're not there yet.

Another thing that bothered me was the dry through signal on the HX effects. It was bright and brash, not like a good buffer in a pedal chain.

See, the real issue with this is that helix offers someone's version of the pedal, that they hear. Not your ideal sound.

Pedals ought to trump helix, simply as you ought to have bought the pedals perfect to you. Some people go through stacks of pedals to find the one and will vigorously declare it's superiority over the others. Yet loads of people will disagree.

In terms of fx, helix cannot offer a version of every pedal that everyone will think is "better". Just like real pedals all it does is offer options and variations.

Wise words.

Lebarque

Heartfeltdawn said:

Lebarque said:

Snapshots? The ability to change a sound without a pause? WOW! :0)

Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight. Like the chap said above, if digital jiggery pokery floats your boat and gets the tone you want, it's all good. My point is that if you sit down and compare the quality of tone of eg. a Mojovibe with the vibe on the Helix, there is a marked difference.

There is a difference of tone, yes. But referring to it as a "quality of tone" suggests an empirical scale for tone quality which is obviously not true. A Mojovibe tone is no better than a Helix vibe tone in exactly the same way that a Telecaster tone is not "better" than a Les Paul tone. That Mojovibe tone might sound warmer, fuller, whatever the descriptor, but dropping it down into the 'better' category outright is just daft. 

Hmmm. You're not comparing like with like with a Tele and a Les Paul. I was comparing a Vibe with a Vibe. But I take your point that beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I still maintain that in a blind test, most wouldn't pick the Helix vibe as sounding/feeling better than a good quality photocell vibe though.

Lebarque

althy said:

the mods are just not its strength. what i really dislike the unit adds a weird top end thing that i find in evry line 6 product very noticeable with the dry through on super clean. at that point i get that it's a statement by the brand on what they believe sounds good and that's cool. completely disagree though

Yep, that's what I was referring to when talking about the brighter, brasher dry through signal. Not as bouncy and warm as when you plug straight into your amp, or through a good buffer. Is it the 'converting to digital and back' thing? Again, maybe that's what many want, but I'd prefer a transparent dry through.

Interesting re. the mods not being it's strength. I didn't try the drives, so can't comment on them. I wanted stellar mods, but was disappointed.

Lebarque

english_bob said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

In fairness, yer man walked in to a thread about the Helix specifically to shit on it.

Not at all. It's a thread about going back to pedals - something I really identify with.

John_A

Lebarque said:

english_bob said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

In fairness, yer man walked in to a thread about the Helix specifically to shit on it.

Not at all. It's a thread about going back to pedals - something I really identify with.

It's actually a thread about going back to pedals and wishing I hadn't bothered

EricTheWeary

John_A said:

Lebarque said:

english_bob said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

In fairness, yer man walked in to a thread about the Helix specifically to shit on it.

Not at all. It's a thread about going back to pedals - something I really identify with.

It's actually a thread about going back to pedals and wishing I hadn't bothered

...going back to pedals or with this thread...

John_A

EricTheWeary said:

John_A said:

Lebarque said:

english_bob said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

In fairness, yer man walked in to a thread about the Helix specifically to shit on it.

Not at all. It's a thread about going back to pedals - something I really identify with.

It's actually a thread about going back to pedals and wishing I hadn't bothered

...going back to pedals or with this thread...

No, going back to pedals, the thread's all good stuff.  

For me going back to pedals was a pain in the backside,  and didn't sounds as good, but then I don't have loads of high-end pedals, A real Klon in to a JCM800 with a space echo ran after it might sound better than the Helix emulation, but I'll never know  

UnclePsychosis

I blame schools, myself. They need to teach logic and reasoning better and then we could all avoid these arguments. "I prefer the tone of these particular pedals, therefore the helix sounds bad" is a logical fallacy that should be rather easy to avoid making but seems not to be.

english_bob

UnclePsychosis said:

I blame schools, myself. They need to teach logic and reasoning better and then we could all avoid these arguments. "I prefer the tone of these particular pedals, therefore the helix sounds bad" is a logical fallacy that should be rather easy to avoid making but seems not to be.

I was playing a little game of "fact or opinion?" with my kids the other day.

I can confidently say that a six year old can grasp the difference between "subjective" and "objective".

...and I didn't need to leave it up to their school either.

Majorscale

Roland said:

Majorscale said:

OK Helix users I am intrigued by how you use it live. Here's what I'm interested in finding out... what's the best way of using it going straight to a PA (no amp, no FRFR, no stage monitor) and using IEMs as a monitor for the whole band mix. Currently I don't own either IEMs or a Helix, so starting from zero, what do you recommend equipment-wise and the best way to set it up?

OK, here we go again. “Best” is a relative term, and the answer depends totally on your context. What works for one person often doesn’t work for another. Which is why we keep going around these discussions, and seeing heated disagreement. A better way of approaching the question is “if I want to try Helix/Fractal/Kemper/etc then what’s the best way to start.

I can give you my personal answer, which is that I originally got into Fractal for the effects, and used it in the FX loop of a valve combo. Then I found that the amp sounds were quite good, and bypassed the combo’s preamp. Much later I switched to a powered pa speaker, and then to FRFR. Nowadays I go straight to the pa, and use the FRFR for personal monitoring and for acoustic coupling with the instrument. If I were starting again, knowing what I know now, then I’d go straight to FRFR. However that is a big step for anyone starting out because it feels different to having a hot valve amp and cabinet beside you. So if I were you I’d buy a secondhand Helix and experiment.

Walking right over the lines of pedantry there @Roland, especially when you use "best" in the very same paragraph!

With regards to connecting directly to the PA, I was interested in the experiences of the Helix users playing out live - can anyone recommend an "optimum" method of connecting out of the various options i.e. XLR line level, XLR mic, 1/4 jack with separate DI... feedback & anecdotes welcome! 

Anyone gone down the Helix to PA and IEM route and if so any recommendations or pluses/minuses?

robinbowes

Majorscale said:

With regards to connecting directly to the PA, I was interested in the experiences of the Helix users playing out live - can anyone recommend an "optimum" method of connecting out of the various options i.e. XLR line level, XLR mic, 1/4 jack with separate DI... feedback & anecdotes welcome! 

I go XLR direct to PA. I *think* it's mic-level, and set at 100%. If it's not my own PA, then I will also take a monitor and run 1/4" out to it so I can control my on-stage level with the Helix volume knob (set to only change 1/4" out level).

If I were using "dodgy" 3rd-party PAs more then I'd probably go 1/4" -> DI Box to protect against the phantom power issue (I've never run into it myself but others have, apparently).

John_A

robinbowes said:

Majorscale said:

With regards to connecting directly to the PA, I was interested in the experiences of the Helix users playing out live - can anyone recommend an "optimum" method of connecting out of the various options i.e. XLR line level, XLR mic, 1/4 jack with separate DI... feedback & anecdotes welcome! 

I go XLR direct to PA. I *think* it's mic-level, and set at 100%. If it's not my own PA, then I will also take a monitor and run 1/4" out to it so I can control my on-stage level with the Helix volume knob (set to only change 1/4" out level).

If I were using "dodgy" 3rd-party PAs more then I'd probably go 1/4" -> DI Box to protect against the phantom power issue (I've never run into it myself but others have, apparently).

Well that saved me typing - I do exactly the same

Roland

Majorscale said:

Walking right over the lines of pedantry there @Roland, especially when you use "best" in the very same paragraph!

mr-mac

VJIves said:

If I was in a covers band you'd have to pry the helix out of my cold, dead hands as I can't imagine anything more convenient, but I couldn't get on with it at all as a writing tool. Partly that's down to my ADHD which gives me a really hard time menu diving, but when I'm putting my parts together on a home demo I love my board and a shelf of pedals within reach. Live I think there's way less chance of me treading on the wrong thing with pedals. In the middle of a gig I'd end up pressing the wrong snapshot or whatever and I'd find that harder to recover from while I tried to figure out what I'd done, compared to 'oh, I know what that pedal does and I know that it shouldn't be on'. 

Agreed doing covers and running a full band open mic my GSP was just the ticket for giving me and different players exactly what they wanted for any type of music from clean to metal.

Voxman

  I thought my Vox Tonelab SE was big and heavy at 13.67lbs but the Helix is even heavier at 14.6 lbs.  

Size wise the Helix is 22.05" x 11.85" x 3.6"
Tonelab SE is 27.95" x 9.8" x 2.99".

Both are big and heavy buggers!

meltedbuzzbox

Voxman said:

  I thought my Vox Tonelab SE was big and heavy at 13.67lbs but the Helix is even heavier at 14.6 lbs.  

Size wise the Helix is 22.05" x 11.85" x 3.6"
Tonelab SE is 27.95" x 9.8" x 2.99".

Both are big and heavy buggers!

But the vox tonelab is proper gash