Patent - Anyone on here applied for one without a solicitor?

PVO_Dave

Afternoon all,

Invented something (saying that sounds fancier than it is), I've registered all the design variations I can think of but probably need to at least get to a PP stage before trying to go see any big companies about it.

It's a fairly simple thing and having read the online gov portal, on the surface, it doesn't seem that tough to apply for a patent and only a couple of hundred of pounds too, vs using a specialist that isn't just going to wing it for around £4-5k!

Anyone on here managed it themselves, or has the online documentation lured me into a false sense of being able to do this myself?

Dave.

Roland

Dave. A friend of mine invents things. He doesn’t register patents because that would put his IP into the public domain. There is a long history of companies pirating designs, and responding to complaints with “Fuck off. You can’t afford the legal costs to defend your patent.” The US are particularly prone to do this. The Chinese just copy it, and don’t bother to reply.

His approach is to solve the design to production challenges and get a small supply made. He then approaches companies as a potential supplier, and has the choice of supplying, licensing, or selling the design.

There is a recent episode of Desert Island Discs where another inventor expounds a similar view.

PolarityMan

Roland said:

Dave. A friend of mine invents things. He doesn’t register patents because that would put his IP into the public domain. There is a long history of companies pirating designs, and responding to complaints with “Fuck off. You can’t afford the legal costs to defend your patent.” The US are particularly prone to do this. The Chinese just copy it, and don’t bother to reply.

His approach is to solve the design to production challenges and get a small supply made. He then approaches companies as a potential supplier, and has the choice of supplying, licensing, or selling the design.

There is a recent episode of Desert Island Discs where another inventor expounds a similar view.

Which is weird because they do challenge US patents...Ive had one of mine challenged before it got filed by the Chinese Patent Office...luckily I could demonstrate a small bit of novelty and still got the file.

PVO_Dave

Roland said:

Dave. A friend of mine invents things. He doesn’t register patents because that would put his IP into the public domain. There is a long history of companies pirating designs, and responding to complaints with “Fuck off. You can’t afford the legal costs to defend your patent.” The US are particularly prone to do this. The Chinese just copy it, and don’t bother to reply.

His approach is to solve the design to production challenges and get a small supply made. He then approaches companies as a potential supplier, and has the choice of supplying, licensing, or selling the design.

There is a recent episode of Desert Island Discs where another inventor expounds a similar view.

Thanks Roland, my only worry would be the people we'd be approaching could get these made themselves easily enough, thinking it might make us look a bit more serious too? 

If you can remember the name of the person on that Desert Island Discs episode I'd gladly take a listen for more info on that viewpoint  

Hattigol

PVO_Dave said:

Thanks Roland, my only worry would be the people we'd be approaching could get these made themselves easily enough, thinking it might make us look a bit more serious too? 

A big +1 to that.

I know it is no measure of 'normal' business life but Peter Jones has often laughed people out of Dragons' Den on the basis that they have no patent so he could (and would) just get the thing made up himself.

I'd be minded to try and do it yourself - provided that if you do mess it up, you can live with the consequences financially?

Good luck with it, whatever you do.

PVO_Dave

Hattigol said:

PVO_Dave said:

Thanks Roland, my only worry would be the people we'd be approaching could get these made themselves easily enough, thinking it might make us look a bit more serious too? 

A big +1 to that.

I know it is no measure of 'normal' business life but Peter Jones has often laughed people out of Dragons' Den on the basis that they have no patent so he could (and would) just get the thing made up himself.

I'd be minded to try and do it yourself - provided that if you do mess it up, you can live with the consequences financially?

Good luck with it, whatever you do.

Thanks!

Well the thought is, to do it yourself would cost sub £300 and you might not hear anything back for 6 months where you are in a state of Patent pending which is when we'd go out and try and start pitching it. There's of course every chance the patent would get rejected as it's a 'norm' doing the application rather than someone trained in what to do, but I'd do as much homework as I could first - I'd be happier spending £300 to find out if there's a market for something that £4-5k getting a patent solicitor to do it and then maybe not selling any / licensing it at the end of it.

Fretwired

If you think its worth money then get professional advice from a patent lawyer. I know someone who invented a unique (or so he thought) way to screw things together. You can apply for a patent but there's no guarantee someone hasn't already patented something similar. You need someone who can undertake the necessary searches and get cover for the right categories. Most people think the Chinese will rip things off which they do but the biggest, nastiest bastards in my friend's case were German (ask James Dyson). I won't bore you with what happened but he lost a lot of money and had his idea stolen, modified and patented. The people that did this never even put it into production. It was a defensive action.

jpfamps

I've been involved with projects which resulted in published patents.

It was mostly an exercise in a) trying to prove to investors that there was some value in a company that only spent money, and had none coming in, b) trying to make the patent application as difficult find / understand as possible (for example the key word in the title was mispelt on 2 published patents, which virtually made the patent impossible to find in a search, although of course searches may have become more sophisticated since then), and c) making sure that all possible uses for the compounds involved were covered even if they made no actual sense.

It's a bit of a mine field to say the least.

As above, by publishing the patent the info is in the public domain (although it might not be findable!!).

The trick seems to be making the information in the patent as intractable as possible, but still comprehensive enough to cover all eventualities, for example if someone finds a new application for your invention that you have not documented they are not contravening the terms of the patent by using the invention in this way; in fact they could take out a patent to cover this new application of your invention.

By employing a specialist you should avoid any obvious pitfalls, but of course giving money to lawyers is painful, and there may be better ways to spend the money on promoting your product.

Two further points, patents have a limited life span, so often it's a trade off between rushing to patent something to secure your IP, and maximising the time you have to commercially exploit that patent.

Secondly, just because you have published a patent does not mean your invention's IP is protected. Patents are regularly challenged in court (expensive), or simply ignored (Behringer !!) hoping that a legal challenge will not be mounted due to the deep pockets of the offending party.

My guess is that a badly written patent is potentially worse than none at all, but getting the requisite advice is expensive.

thermionic

Roland said:

His approach is to solve the design to production challenges and get a small supply made. He then approaches companies as a potential supplier, and has the choice of supplying, licensing, or selling the design.

What’s to stop one of those companies copying the idea? Nothing. If you have a patent, you can licence the idea to a company with the means to make it. Or you can sell the rights completely.

I do this kind of thing for a living and have just gained a postgraduate diploma in Intellectual Property Law - I’m happy to answer questions about the process by PM.

PVO_Dave

thermionic said:

Roland said:

His approach is to solve the design to production challenges and get a small supply made. He then approaches companies as a potential supplier, and has the choice of supplying, licensing, or selling the design.

What’s to stop one of those companies copying the idea? Nothing. If you have a patent, you can licence the idea to a company with the means to make it. Or you can sell the rights completely.

I do this kind of thing for a living and have just gained a postgraduate diploma in Intellectual Property Law - I’m happy to answer questions about the process by PM.

Amazing, thanks so much for the offer!

I’ll do some more digging / make a start before I trouble you, probably won’t be for a few weeks, thanks again

Roland

PVO_Dave said:

If you can remember the name of the person on that Desert Island Discs episode I'd gladly take a listen for more info on that viewpoint  

It wasn’t Desert Island Discs. John Crawshaw Taylor on The Life Scientific broadcast on 29th May.