Bargain of the day... (unless you want a real one)

gringopig

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hotpickups

gringopig said:

hotpickups said:

This isn't a real Gibson is that what you're saying ?

Correct. It's an obvious Chinese fake.

Shouldn't it be reported to eBay then? Not sure what they'll actually do though

gringopig

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hotpickups

Just out of interest what are the obvious signs of a fake for future reference?

gringopig

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hotpickups

Still would need a good experienced eye to spot some of those signs I reckon. I could never trust myself with an eBay guitar purchase nowadays  

thermionic

A recent one I’ve noticed is the centre line of the top is not centred. Pic 8 of the ebay listing shows it to be aligned with the G string, not between the D and G. Again, this a characteristic of Chinese Les Pauls, whether they’re Epiphones or blatant counterfeits like this one.

gringopig

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WezV

gringopig said:

Easiest way is just to look for nibs. The Chinese fakes never have nibs as it's too expensive and time consuming to file the binding around them.

Except the ones that have started doing it

gringopig

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prlgmnr

the fuck is a nib?

oh right it's that

darthed1981

If I were so inclined, I'd go to China, find these factories, and fix these defects (which are almost all easily fixable).  Basically every flaw with every Chibson ever could be identified in a morning by searching TFB, thanks to the wealth of expertise here.

I'd then stick the brand "G59" on the headstock instead of Gibson, import a container-full, and sell guitars that compete with multi-thousand pound Gibson re-issues for Epiphone prices or less.

I played a new Chapman the other month and for £400 it was bluddy superb, same as the new PRS standards and basically anything else coming out of Indonesia.

We could easily be in a golden age of cheap instruments, and any issues are a tweak in QC.  I'm actually surprised that the original Chapman idea (put in cheap pickups because people will instantly swap them anyway) didn't take off.  Maybe it was because of the weight cock-up (now fixed).

OilCityPickups

I've reported too ... it's as moody as a three pound note.

baldy

I have done some work on a Chibson for a friend who bought it used knowing what it was & gave about £150 for it.
It was actually a very nice looking guitar (with the usual chibson give away signs of wrong truss cover, no nibs, incorrect stop tail positioning etc) but the finish was really very good & the neck was true with not bad frets.
Hardware let it down though making it sound thin & weedy & the nut was poorly cut making it go out of tune quite easily.
After some fettling, light fret dress & rounding off the fret ends,rolling the edge of the board, pup change, pot change, tuner swap, nut swap all for budget items & a set up it is a nice looking/sounding/playing instrument & only owes him about £250.
If you pay the right money for what they are you can sometimes get a nice instrument for not a lot of cash but trying to pass them off as genuine is obviously just fraud.
iirc his was one of the "Anna Lee" Chinese ones which again iirc were around £280 to buy new.

prlgmnr

darthed1981 said:

If I were so inclined, I'd go to China, find these factories, and fix these defects (which are almost all easily fixable).  Basically every flaw with every Chibson ever could be identified in a morning by searching TFB, thanks to the wealth of expertise here.

Every obvious cosmetic flaw could be identified, and then these and all the other flaws could be easily fixed by:

Using better quality materials.
Better training for the builders/hiring more skilled builders.
More in depth QC.

I wonder if any of that would affect the final cost in any way?

prowla

Gibson & Fenders on ebay are a minefield at the moment, with counterfeits, up-branded Squires (sic), etc.

At least the counterfeiters haven't got 'round to making a decent Rickenbacker bass copy (yet)...

darthed1981

prlgmnr said:

darthed1981 said:

If I were so inclined, I'd go to China, find these factories, and fix these defects (which are almost all easily fixable).  Basically every flaw with every Chibson ever could be identified in a morning by searching TFB, thanks to the wealth of expertise here.

Every obvious cosmetic flaw could be identified, and then these and all the other flaws could be easily fixed by:

Using better quality materials.
Better training for the builders/hiring more skilled builders.
More in depth QC.

I wonder if any of that would affect the final cost in any way?

Yes of course it would you sarcy git!

Though, to add sauce to the goose...

Sure, materials make a difference, but how much?  There will, at least until the boomers die, always be a sector of the market who want a 59 re-issue costing £5000-7000 but if you could capture the spirit or the overall tone of the guitar for a street price of £500, would it be worth a try?

There was nothing anyone thought exceptional about a 59 burst in 1959, people only decided they liked them a decade later that's why there used to be so few of them, a lot more now of course...   Even if you go out and spend 300k, you aren't guaranteed a real one, vintage guitar dealers have a bad rep here for that reason.

As for training, I suspect there are luthiers in China and Indonesia every bit as skilled as pretty much everyone in the Gibson factories, and they will also work harder for longer hours. 

Also these guys effectively mass produce huge quantities of complex electronics, so why could processes not be put in place to effectively mass produce a half decent 59 burst copy?

I'm not saying it would be the equal of an actual Gibson R59 or R58, but if you can get 90% of the way there for £500, then surely worth a shot...?

Certainly a lot healthier than making counterfeit instruments to pass off for the real thing.  That's sort of my point really, if they put this much effort into a fake, why not go the extra mile and produce a decent copy for the non-loaded musician to get their blues on with?

There aint many millenials entering the guitar playing community with a budget of 5k!

thegummy

That's an interesting point "until the boomers die". There are people buying those type of guitars as a long term investment but I think you're possibly right that, unlike other collectors items that will keep roughly the same demand as new collectors want the same things as the dying ones, it might well be a particular age group who want those guitars and there will come a time in a few decades where the demand will drop massively.

darthed1981

thegummy said:

That's an interesting point "until the boomers die". There are people buying those type of guitars as a long term investment but I think you're possibly right that, unlike other collectors items that will keep roughly the same demand as new collectors want the same things as the dying ones, it might well be a particular age group who want those guitars and there will come a time in a few decades where the demand will drop massively.

I think there are quite a few things people collect that are facing that kind of a cliff to be honest.

HarrySeven

WezV said:

gringopig said:

Easiest way is just to look for nibs. The Chinese fakes never have nibs as it's too expensive and time consuming to file the binding around them.

Except the ones that have started doing it

Yup - I’m a member of a USA-based Chibson Facebook group and it’s interesting to watch developments in build quality and QC generally.

Sellers are now taking the time to work with buyers on speccing ever more accurate fakes. Definitely something to be wary of in the future...