What is going on in this Michael Jackson song?

viz

Yep, I should have said Amaj13. Amaj13 just means it has a major 7th, and the A6 doesn’t even have a 7th at all (as I’m sure you know); as far as the ACTUAL 13 and 6 are concerned, which is the note we’re interested in, there’s no difference. I was just ignoring the nature of the 7th. Soz!

bingefeller

viz said:

Yep, I should have said Amaj13. Amaj13 just means it has a major 7th, and the A6 doesn’t even have a 7th at all (as I’m sure you know); as far as the ACTUAL 13 and 6 are concerned, which is the note we’re interested in, there’s no difference. I was just ignoring the nature of the 7th. Soz!

ok, I get ya now

Brad

@bingefeller just a ‘vanilla’ version of your Amaj13  

@viz I thought that was what you meant. I can see where you’re coming from, but personally, I don’t quite see it as an inversion as such. I’d see F#m6 as an inversion of it (as they are the same notes), but i guess it’s like saying it’s an inversion of Dmaj7, just without the D#. Or to strip it down to A C# F#, I’d see that as a 2nd inversion F#m, as maj6 chords are/can be inversions of m(7) chords. Well, that’s how my head works anyway! Same thing, different thought processes  

Regarding the modulation, I’m with you on that but I look at it this way...

The F#sus being the V of B, but with it being sus, it’s neither major nor minor so is used as a common chord to a new key. F#sus can be the vi in A, iii in D or the ii in E. In any case, it can the be subbed for an Amaj type chord, as swapping vi for its I (or I for vi) is a common move. 

Also, rather than two sets of ii V I, it could be seen as a slightly long winded iii vi ii V with subs all over the place to create more movement and tension because the I in the chorus is the ultimate destination.  

The bland diatonic changes being:

     iii.        vi.            ii.               ii.               V
|D#m7 / G#m7 / |C#m7 / / / |C#m7 / / / |F#7 / / / |

Subbing a m7 for m7b5 is really common as is making a vi a VI7 (or alt as in this case). The ii is subbed for its relative major E, which happens to be the IV in B with the ii left as is and the F#7 changed for sus. From there, perhaps the writers thought that’s a pretty big jump from F#sus to D#m7b5, so as discussed, that gets changed for Amaj13? As the root movement isn’t initially diatonic to B major, it makes the ears take notice, but it’s really elegantly done with all the other common things going on to tie everything together. It’s taking something pretty bland and going Gospel all over it. 

Who’d have thought 4 bars could generate so much debate eh? It always amazes me how people can find different pathways to solve these problems  

bingefeller

Thanks guys, this is a great educational thread.  Who knew that we would be analysing the songwriting of R Kelly and Michael Jackson like this?

Brad

bingefeller said:

Thanks guys, this is a great educational thread.  Who knew that we would be analysing the songwriting of R Kelly and Michael Jackson like this?

With all the great musical minds MJ worked with, there is often a lot to dig your teeth into without realising. It’s deceptively tricky and sophisticated stuff but never sounds it’s trying to be. 

Also, I never knew R Kelly wrote this tune. But now it makes total sense, it’s very similar to ‘I Believe I Can Fly’!

bingefeller

Brad said:

bingefeller said:

Thanks guys, this is a great educational thread.  Who knew that we would be analysing the songwriting of R Kelly and Michael Jackson like this?

With all the great musical minds MJ worked with, there is often a lot to dig your teeth into without realising. It’s deceptively tricky and sophisticated stuff but never sounds it’s trying to be. 

Also, I never knew R Kelly wrote this tune. But now it makes total sense, it’s very similar to ‘I Believe I Can Fly’!

Yeah ...., I haven’t  looked at the sheet music to I Believe I Can Fly but I’m guessing it has a similar chord progression.  The melody sounds quite similar too.  

duotone

Funkfingers said:

bingefeller said:

I'm wondering what is happening with this modulation?  How does it move so smooth from the F#7sus4 to the Amaj13?

I'm wondering whether R Kelly composed the song with those exact chord inversions or whether it was the choice of an arranger or the session pianist. e.g. Greg Phillinganes. 

Love that guy!

https://youtu.be/svX6WRWBP8o