Prices gone OTT?

rlw

johnl said:

Adam_MD said:

johnl said:

 The "I only want back what it owes me" crowd honestly do my head in. If it's a bog standard mass-produced guitar that's not limited or special in any way then it is not worth exactly what you paid for it 5 years ago, regardless of how much you'd like it to be.

I usually see people posting that in relation to gear they bought secondhand never new.  I always take it to mean they’re not trying to make money on it.  

Completely agreed but that's why I find it (irrationally) annoying. It's as if someone is doing me a favour by not trying to charge me more than they paid for their slightly beaten up Squier Strat 5 years ago - my assumption with my gear is always that it's losing value pretty much from the second I pick it up.

I have a guitar I bought less than a month ago for a fair secondhand price which I think I want to move on.  I would like to get back what I paid for it as it's nearly twenty years old and should have stopped depreciating by now.

longjaw

I've been lucky enough to do deals with chaps who just 'want rid' (for whatever reason) and undersell massively.

Best example is a mint Gibson LP Studio I got for £230.

mbe

I watched new prices of Epiphones rise significantly up until last year. This year I see many new bread and butter Epis for nearly £100 less.

I wonder if that reflects a major slowdown in demand. Obviously the Chinese factories' output must be backing up somewhat.

Jack_

johnl said:

Adam_MD said:

johnl said:

 The "I only want back what it owes me" crowd honestly do my head in. If it's a bog standard mass-produced guitar that's not limited or special in any way then it is not worth exactly what you paid for it 5 years ago, regardless of how much you'd like it to be.

I usually see people posting that in relation to gear they bought secondhand never new.  I always take it to mean they’re not trying to make money on it.  

Completely agreed but that's why I find it (irrationally) annoying. It's as if someone is doing me a favour by not trying to charge me more than they paid for their slightly beaten up Squier Strat 5 years ago - my assumption with my gear is always that it's losing value pretty much from the second I pick it up.

I disagree, guitars hold their value very well in relative terms. Yes you lose a chunk if you bought new, but when you buy used you'll rarely lose much money when you sell it, especially if you kept it in good shape. If you do lose money it'll be minimal, unless you're regularly buying overpriced used guitars.

iain.reverb

Used prices on US strats always startle me. I always mentally associate that a used US strat is £5-600 all day long, but Ive seen a lot sell for north of £800

guitars4you

iain.reverb said:

Used prices on US strats always startle me. I always mentally associate that a used US strat is £5-600 all day long, but Ive seen a lot sell for north of £800

Dan Smith 82/83 Strats baffle me now at some prices over £1500

Plus the same era Standard Strat with 2 pots around £700/900

And the one that baffles me most are USA Vintage Strat + Tele reissues from the 82-85 era from Fullerton - with many asking over 2K even 3K !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iain.reverb

guitars4you said:

iain.reverb said:

Used prices on US strats always startle me. I always mentally associate that a used US strat is £5-600 all day long, but Ive seen a lot sell for north of £800

Dan Smith 82/83 Strats baffle me now at some prices over £1500

Plus the same era Standard Strat with 2 pots around £700/900

And the one that baffles me most are USA Vintage Strat + Tele reissues from the 82-85 era from Fullerton - with many asking over 2K even 3K !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Fullarton AVRI prices are wild, but mind you I remember when you could buy a 70's strat for £600-700, and it would sit on the wall for best part of six months. This wasn't that long ago either

fendergibson

iain.reverb said:

guitars4you said:

iain.reverb said:

Used prices on US strats always startle me. I always mentally associate that a used US strat is £5-600 all day long, but Ive seen a lot sell for north of £800

Dan Smith 82/83 Strats baffle me now at some prices over £1500

Plus the same era Standard Strat with 2 pots around £700/900

And the one that baffles me most are USA Vintage Strat + Tele reissues from the 82-85 era from Fullerton - with many asking over 2K even 3K !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Fullarton AVRI prices are wild, but mind you I remember when you could buy a 70's strat for £600-700, and it would sit on the wall for best part of six months. This wasn't that long ago either

Interesting stuff. I own a ‘77 all original but refretted with heavy steel. Wouldn’t sell it as I had it fettled to play to my tastes ie. like a modern one. Given all we know about ‘70’s strats I’d never expect more than a grand for it. Give it another 20 years though and who knows ?

guitars4you

iain.reverb said:

guitars4you said:

iain.reverb said:

Used prices on US strats always startle me. I always mentally associate that a used US strat is £5-600 all day long, but Ive seen a lot sell for north of £800

Dan Smith 82/83 Strats baffle me now at some prices over £1500

Plus the same era Standard Strat with 2 pots around £700/900

And the one that baffles me most are USA Vintage Strat + Tele reissues from the 82-85 era from Fullerton - with many asking over 2K even 3K !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Fullarton AVRI prices are wild, but mind you I remember when you could buy a 70's strat for £600-700, and it would sit on the wall for best part of six months. This wasn't that long ago either

are they actually selling at such silly prices though

bassbora

This thread is very interesting and I guess a lot of truth in it.  But for my part when I have been trying to sell stuff I am really bad ad pricing it and its usually something that is 20 or 30 years old which I might have had for 2 - 3 months so I have thought surely the depreciation is not that great I cant try to get the same value back.  I have in some instances upgraded (case or something cosmetic) but I have noticed that people almost feel you should absorb the cost.  I have made a big loss on every single item I have sold (and its not that many) but once I made a tenner.  

But then again this is my hobby so I am not trying to make money from it and I am kind of resigned to the fact I am to put it mildly awful sales person.

iain.reverb

Some of them are actually selling at that
https://reverb.com/uk/price-guide/guide/4307-fender-57-reissue-stratocaster-1983-sunburst
https://reverb.com/uk/price-guide/guide/17248-fender-62-reissue-stratocaster-1982-olympic-white
https://reverb.com/uk/price-guide/guide/17678-fender-57-reissue-stratocaster-1984-lake-placid-blue

But if you go for a post 88 model the prices are approximately halve.

jeztone2

The thing is, new prices have gone crazy since 2015. If you bought something on discount from a dealer a couple of years ago. New prices have become so insane. You will probably get most of your money back.

In the last year, I've seen a Yamaha SG1820 for £1k in Guitar Guitar. But most used prices are what £1.3-£1.5K? 

My PRS Custom 24 Floyd. The new ones are lower spec than the 2014 ones. Factor in that not many makes it to the UK now. So the used ones seem to have crept up. 

iain.reverb

jeztone2 said:

The thing is, new prices have gone crazy since 2015. If you bought something on discount from a dealer a couple of years ago. New prices have become so insane. You will probably get most of your money back.

In the last year, I've seen a Yamaha SG1820 for £1k in Guitar Guitar. But most used prices are what £1.3-£1.5K? 

My PRS Custom 24 Floyd. The new ones are lower spec than the 2014 ones. Factor in that not many makes it to the UK now. So the used ones seem to have crept up. 

If you bought a US Strat early 2000's you would have paid £599-£629, you could turn round and sell it now for £700-£800. 
I think the Orginal CU24 floyds were amazing value. Ebony board as well ?

Blueingreen

It's anecdotal but my impression is that at the higher end of the market:

1. There has been a large hike in new prices over the past 2 or 3 years, prompted I imagine largely by exchange rate movements

2.  There was a lag in second hand prices increasing to match that but recently there have been big rises.

I suppose the question is what follows from that.  It seems reasonable to assume that if the new price of a guitar has gone from say £2,500 to £3,600 in a relatively short time the market for those guitars is going to shrink.  Fewer people will be able afford/be prepared to pay those prices.

The question is how the industry responds.

Does it settle for a higher margin/lower volume business model?  Does the UK market matter enough for American companies to tailor prices for it, maybe accepting tighter margins on exports to the UK to keep volume up?

Unless something unexpected happens (exchange rate reversal?  I won't be holding my breath) we may simply be entering an era where new high-end guitars are options for a smaller and more well-heeled minority of players.  If that happens I'd expect used prices to stay higher as well.  Players will hold on to what they've got, and people will be prepared to pay more for second hand versus as opposed to new.

I'd also expect the guitar industry to shrink a bit and focus more on cheaper models.

UnclePsychosis

The demise of the baby boomer generation, added to the downturn in the economy and the fact that guitar based music isn't the number one show in town any more will mean that, increasingly, the supply of second hand gear will massively outstrip demand. Its already happening and will only get worse. 

I've said this before---the guys who justified buying dozens of guitars because "I can always get my money back" may shortly find themselves in for a rude shock. Their gear will either take an age to find someone who actually wants it, and/or they may find that what they thought it was worth isn't what anyone is actually willing to pay anymore. 

Gadget

I think with Brexit on the way (with the potential introduction of import charges from European supppliers) and the USA's 'America first' let's-pull-up-the-drawbridge-and-concentrate-on-domestic-sales approach, new gear is only going to get more expensive.

More expensive new gear = more expensive s/h gear.

bgmartinsbridge

Can we ban brexit and trump as discussions from the forum - lol. 

Surely, if trump devalues the dollar, as he says all other countries are manipulating their currency, Fender, Gibson and PRS will get cheaper for us on here :-) 

Jimbro66

I’m not sure that two-thirds is such a hard and fast rule now as it once was. Two thirds of what?

Picking up on what @terada said earlier in this thread, the big increases in new guitar prices in recent years makes used values harder to determine. For example, I bought a particular new guitar for £1,300 several years ago but over that period the new price increased to over £2,000. Exactly the same guitar with no upgrades at all. So what is the correct used value of one of those guitars? A recent buyer would be hoping to sell for maybe £1,400 used but that is more than I paid for a new one. Two-thirds of my purchase price would be around £850 but that would be gutting for someone who’d paid £2k. As it happens I sold mine for £1,100 so that inflated new price did me a quite a favour. A similar thing has happened with Fender amp prices so, again, used prices are not easy to determine. Optimistic? Realistic? It depends on your viewpoint -  and what money is around.

DrJazzTap

When I listed my blues deluxe for sale I looked at prices on eBay. A lot of ads for around £475 to £500. I started at £400. Taking into account new they are £688. Then gradually dropped it to £300. From £325 to £300 I ended up being inundated. Which I thought was weird as it was a £25 drop? 
But that was obviously the price for the amp. And looking back in 09 new price was £574. And to get back half is good enough for me.

Henrytwang

johnl said:

 The "I only want back what it owes me" crowd honestly do my head in. If it's a bog standard mass-produced guitar that's not limited or special in any way then it is not worth exactly what you paid for it 5 years ago, regardless of how much you'd like it to be.

Some people own guitars for long periods of time. I’m one of them so getting back what a guitar owed me would giving it away by today’s prices. For instance, I paid £160 for a Telecaster in 1976 and £350 for a Les Paul in 1982. I’m pretty sure that if I listed them on EBAY at those prices they’d be gone in seconds. I have to admit that the prices people are prepared to pay for old guitars is baffling, I’ve got a few recent Gibson Les Pauls and they’re better playing and sounding than my older ones. I really only hang on to a lot of my old instruments out of nostalgia, there are some excellent quality instruments being made today at bargain prices when compared to the daft amounts being asked for quite mediocre old ones.