Running a guitar store - return on capital invested - stock turn !!!!

guitars4you

PhilKing said:

@guitars4you, you were right.  John Gothard used to own it.  It was down a really low passageway from the street, then we got the shop on the street as well, but used to have mainly keyboards in there.  John sold out to two brothers, which is when it changed to Spectre Sound.  I stopped working there in 77.  Say hi to Dixie if you still see him.  I last saw him at one of the London Guitar Shows about 10 years ago.  I was working on the Bare Knuckle stand.

Will say hi to Dixie - I see him quite a bit still and talk at least once a week with him - Retired now but still has a stand at a few Northern Guitar Shows

Yes I recall JSG always had a big reputation in the day and one of the first music stores I know to do a late night shopping

So many of such independents have all gone now

richardhomer

guitars4you said:

richardhomer said:

Just in relation to your ‘socks’ Mark - probably best not to do your dirty laundry in public....

yep - I've just noticed and changed - thanks

So you’ve changed your socks then?

kt66

Expecting retailers to effectively hold the distributors stock for them is genius from Fender, but bordering on insanity by retailers.
I spent some time in hi end audio retail,  we had dem items for high value items, and keep low stock of cheaper items that we knew turned over.
The customer tries the dem model, then places an order and waits anything from 24 hours to 24 months for the kit. Even with this model most HIFI shops are gone.  HIFI value examples from £300 to £30000 for a pair of speakers, so similar prices. 

I don't see how Fender, or any manufacturer could ever be in trouble if all their stock is sold and they have no warehousing costs. 
 

bloodandtears

mbe said:

I used to like JSG, they were keener prices than Leeds stores like Scheerers and Kitchens. 

The last time I went there was in 1980 to buy a brand new Hohner Pianet. That was a really heavy load to carry back to Leeds on the bus.

Sorry for digressing, the memory was so vivid. Then it changed name to Spectre Sound.

I bought my first Ibanez Jem from Spectre Sound c.92/93. To this day I recall there being a costlier model that I lusted after.. it was either a Purple Multi Colour or Desert Yellow.. I know it had the disappearing pyramids.

carlwalters

PhilKing said:

@guitars4you, you were right.  John Gothard used to own it.  It was down a really low passageway from the street, then we got the shop on the street as well, but used to have mainly keyboards in there.  John sold out to two brothers, which is when it changed to Spectre Sound.  I stopped working there in 77.  Say hi to Dixie if you still see him.  I last saw him at one of the London Guitar Shows about 10 years ago.  I was working on the Bare Knuckle stand.

Blimey! Phil King!
I worked at JSG from '79 until '88 when he shut shop and John Furnace took over as Spectre. You brought me a Tom Schultz Rockman from Manny's in NYC in exchange for my Marshall 2 x12 Combo.

PhilKing

Hi Carl, tbh I don't remember that, but I know I did bring a few things over for John when I first moved over to New York.  I stayed in touch with everyone, even after John and Bob took over.  I bought a few things from them including my Modulus Graphite and Marshall Silver Jubilee.  I think probably one of the last things I bought when John had the shop might have been my Hamer Sunburst, which I got in p/x for a JayDee Explorer that I'd also picked up there before.

JayGee

carlwalters said:

PhilKing said:

@guitars4you, you were right.  John Gothard used to own it.  It was down a really low passageway from the street, then we got the shop on the street as well, but used to have mainly keyboards in there.  John sold out to two brothers, which is when it changed to Spectre Sound.  I stopped working there in 77.  Say hi to Dixie if you still see him.  I last saw him at one of the London Guitar Shows about 10 years ago.  I was working on the Bare Knuckle stand.

Blimey! Phil King!
I worked at JSG from '79 until '88 when he shut shop and John Furnace took over as Spectre. You brought me a Tom Schultz Rockman from Manny's in NYC in exchange for my Marshall 2 x12 Combo.

Small world. If I’m not very much mistaken @carlwalters ; we went to school together. You had more hair, I had less...

Strat54

And I thought Friends Reunited was done....

LPManic

I was in hoping for £1500 custom Strats

carlwalters

JayGee said:

carlwalters said:

PhilKing said:

@guitars4you, you were right.  John Gothard used to own it.  It was down a really low passageway from the street, then we got the shop on the street as well, but used to have mainly keyboards in there.  John sold out to two brothers, which is when it changed to Spectre Sound.  I stopped working there in 77.  Say hi to Dixie if you still see him.  I last saw him at one of the London Guitar Shows about 10 years ago.  I was working on the Bare Knuckle stand.

Blimey! Phil King!
I worked at JSG from '79 until '88 when he shut shop and John Furnace took over as Spectre. You brought me a Tom Schultz Rockman from Manny's in NYC in exchange for my Marshall 2 x12 Combo.

Small world. If I’m not very much mistaken @carlwalters ; we went to school together. You had more hair, I had less...

Whitcliffe Mount?

darius

@guitars4you , really interesting thread. So Mark - if you were wanting to start now and build a guitar shop business, what would you do?

JayGee

carlwalters said:

JayGee said:

carlwalters said:

PhilKing said:

@guitars4you, you were right.  John Gothard used to own it.  It was down a really low passageway from the street, then we got the shop on the street as well, but used to have mainly keyboards in there.  John sold out to two brothers, which is when it changed to Spectre Sound.  I stopped working there in 77.  Say hi to Dixie if you still see him.  I last saw him at one of the London Guitar Shows about 10 years ago.  I was working on the Bare Knuckle stand.

Blimey! Phil King!
I worked at JSG from '79 until '88 when he shut shop and John Furnace took over as Spectre. You brought me a Tom Schultz Rockman from Manny's in NYC in exchange for my Marshall 2 x12 Combo.

Small world. If I’m not very much mistaken @carlwalters ;;; we went to school together. You had more hair, I had less...

Whitcliffe Mount?

Correct.

The guitar in this picture (which I bought at the time we knew each other, still own, and still play from time to time) might just ring a bell...

https://i.imgur.com/FXNI8YA.jpg

guitars4you

darius said:

@guitars4you , really interesting thread. So Mark - if you were wanting to start now and build a guitar shop business, what would you do?

Hard answer - To compete with the likes of Anderton's, Coda, Peach etc you'll need big capital behind you - Unless your family/inheritance allows this, then big borrowing to acquire the appropriate funds will result in far less profit due to the interest you'll be paying on the loan - Such debt can seriously hurt any business

To start small, with a lock-up or bedroom is an option - But a) hard to get the major accounts/brands and b) to start of with used and you are competing against the vast private sales on Facebook, Fretboard, Gumtree, Reverb, E-bay etc 

Only a year or so ago I was asked/approached to see if I could help a start up business - They had acquired funds from a previous venture - My advice was don't do it 

In the 60's and 70's it was common for many stores to start of with effectively the gear they owned and gigged with - Empty the transit van and start from there - Maybe in your local town there was a gap for a start up store and you could build and develop from there - But today with the power of the web that would be a tough call

The big issue is if you don't have access to the major brands, it is hard to make a living selling just the boutique brands and/or entry level brands 

I have thought about your question in the past - I think I'd find a decent location in a larger city, off/near the main high street but with street parking - Fill it with appropriate accessories - Offer repairs and service - And look after all the customers who spend via mail order, yet will come to me when they have teething issues etc - To compliment this and to add 'character' to the store I'd have about 30-50 used guitars, between say £300/1500 - All the affordable classic models - All set-up and if I can acquire many of these guitars via a commission sale then all well and good - But such sales would be the icing on the cake - I could make a living doing this but not build an empire

darius

guitars4you said:

darius said:

@guitars4you , really interesting thread. So Mark - if you were wanting to start now and build a guitar shop business, what would you do?

Hard answer - To compete with the likes of Anderton's, Coda, Peach etc you'll need big capital behind you - Unless your family/inheritance allows this, then big borrowing to acquire the appropriate funds will result in far less profit due to the interest you'll be paying on the loan - Such debt can seriously hurt any business

To start small, with a lock-up or bedroom is an option - But a) hard to get the major accounts/brands and b) to start of with used and you are competing against the vast private sales on Facebook, Fretboard, Gumtree, Reverb, E-bay etc 

Only a year or so ago I was asked/approached to see if I could help a start up business - They had acquired funds from a previous venture - My advice was don't do it 

In the 60's and 70's it was common for many stores to start of with effectively the gear they owned and gigged with - Empty the transit van and start from there - Maybe in your local town there was a gap for a start up store and you could build and develop from there - But today with the power of the web that would be a tough call

The big issue is if you don't have access to the major brands, it is hard to make a living selling just the boutique brands and/or entry level brands 

I have thought about your question in the past - I think I'd find a decent location in a larger city, off/near the main high street but with street parking - Fill it with appropriate accessories - Offer repairs and service - And look after all the customers who spend via mail order, yet will come to me when they have teething issues etc - To compliment this and to add 'character' to the store I'd have about 30-50 used guitars, between say £300/1500 - All the affordable classic models - All set-up and if I can acquire many of these guitars via a commission sale then all well and good - But such sales would be the icing on the cake - I could make a living doing this but not build an empire

Its such a high barrier to entry now, I do wonder where the next generation of physical shops will come from. And if they don't come from anywhere, then what? Eventually all gear is bought unseen. Its going the same way in everything, clothes, bikes, cars. I don't like it, but I'm a traditional see before buy person.

guitars4you

darius said:

guitars4you said:

darius said:

@guitars4you , really interesting thread. So Mark - if you were wanting to start now and build a guitar shop business, what would you do?

Hard answer - To compete with the likes of Anderton's, Coda, Peach etc you'll need big capital behind you - Unless your family/inheritance allows this, then big borrowing to acquire the appropriate funds will result in far less profit due to the interest you'll be paying on the loan - Such debt can seriously hurt any business

To start small, with a lock-up or bedroom is an option - But a) hard to get the major accounts/brands and b) to start of with used and you are competing against the vast private sales on Facebook, Fretboard, Gumtree, Reverb, E-bay etc 

Only a year or so ago I was asked/approached to see if I could help a start up business - They had acquired funds from a previous venture - My advice was don't do it 

In the 60's and 70's it was common for many stores to start of with effectively the gear they owned and gigged with - Empty the transit van and start from there - Maybe in your local town there was a gap for a start up store and you could build and develop from there - But today with the power of the web that would be a tough call

The big issue is if you don't have access to the major brands, it is hard to make a living selling just the boutique brands and/or entry level brands 

I have thought about your question in the past - I think I'd find a decent location in a larger city, off/near the main high street but with street parking - Fill it with appropriate accessories - Offer repairs and service - And look after all the customers who spend via mail order, yet will come to me when they have teething issues etc - To compliment this and to add 'character' to the store I'd have about 30-50 used guitars, between say £300/1500 - All the affordable classic models - All set-up and if I can acquire many of these guitars via a commission sale then all well and good - But such sales would be the icing on the cake - I could make a living doing this but not build an empire

Its such a high barrier to entry now, I do wonder where the next generation of physical shops will come from. And if they don't come from anywhere, then what? Eventually all gear is bought unseen. Its going the same way in everything, clothes, bikes, cars. I don't like it, but I'm a traditional see before buy person.

Will be interesting to know where it goes next - Even for the 'big guys' - Fine if you pass it on down the line, Anderton's style but the company value is now much higher than 20/30 years ago

Yet will 'larger' outside investors, companies enter the trade to buy a few of our best stores as and when they wish/need to sell - Yet return on capital, especially with so much stock invested, is something the 'dragon's den' style venture capitalist hate