Anderton's Vertex video

Fuengi

Wazmeister said:

Fuengi said:

I can understand why some people are upset at this guy, and to some extent with Lee. 

However....

If you are absolutely convinced that he will repeat his past behaviour, then Lee has just offered all Vertex pedals for free. Buy one. Or two, three or four, you will get a full refund, it's there in writing! 

If you think Lee is right and he has turned over a new leaf then don't buy one, but don't complain about Andertons selling them. Fair enough to raise this guy's past, but also fair enough to give him another (one last) chance?

Really ?

He must have had a dozen last chances...

It's amazing the level of feeling about this guy; here and in the US and elsewhere I guess.

Fraudster full stop.

Well, I think that Lee has put his money where his mouth is, which is a brave stance. 

He basically saying '''if this guy is as bad as you all say and fucks up again I'll refund all sales, but im not going to be badgered into taking the video down". 

Personally, I think this does Lee a lot of credit. He has run Andertons his way, to huge success, and that's the way he's going to continue doing things. He clearly has an issue with keyboard warriors after his stance on the YouTube comments. 

Personally, a find this Mason guy creepy. His pedals look crap visually and seem extremely expensive. If I were selling a brand I'd like to think id do some basic homework on the company.

But, I run a small business myself and I hardly have time to scratch my arse, so I can only imagine how busy Lee is. Maybe he didn't Google "Vertex Scandal" and maybe nobody mentioned it to him, or maybe he forgot or got it confused with another brand. He probably wishes he had done and avoided this situation, but he's here now and taken what I think is a very reasonable stance. On this evidence he is certainly someone who you would want to do business with as a supplier, and retail has two elements!

menamestom

I think another way to prove you are worth of another chance is to actually design something with ingenuity and prove your worth.   Do we really need more boosts and overdrives?   Move away from that area and show how clever you are with digitally controlled analog devices or do something new with DSP.   With all the controversy and focus to stay in the same patch of the industry really just proves lack of aptitude and imagination.   Had he come out with something along the complexity of a Chase Bliss pedal people might have actually thought the guy worthy of some attention.  But no, a load of boosts and drives.  

gringopig

.

RaymondLin

Fuengi said:

I can understand why some people are upset at this guy, and to some extent with Lee. 

However....

If you are absolutely convinced that he will repeat his past behaviour, then Lee has just offered all Vertex pedals for free. Buy one. Or two, three or four, you will get a full refund, it's there in writing! 

If you think Lee is right and he has turned over a new leaf then don't buy one, but don't complain about Andertons selling them. Fair enough to raise this guy's past, but also fair enough to give him another (one last) chance?

No, there has to be a line when one say enough is enough.

Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

How many times do you want do you (or want others who are uninformed) to get fooled by this man again?  We are into double digits now by the way EASILY.

Seriously, how many chance do I get to make a fool out of you before you say "NO MORE!"

If you are that generous then do you mind BACS over me some cash?  I promise* I will send you a pedal in return.

*may not be true, but at least i am up front about the truth and not lie about it, then threatened you with lawyers about my lie.

Wazmeister

gringopig said:

I had to get to page 5 on Anderton's website searching high to low price to get to the Ultra-Phonics....
Hardly extremely expensive. The whole market is a vat of snake oil and overpriced clones.

Fuck me.

The irony of that statement when we're talking about Vertex...

gringopig

.

menamestom

Worth noting that an overpriced clone could well be perfectly legal and non-fraudulent, so not really the same thing?

Fuengi

I see an irony market for the "Overpriced Clone" pedal brand!

Who's in? 

RaymondLin

Fuengi said:

I see an irony market for the "Overpriced Clone" pedal brand!

Who's in? 

Vertex isn't a clone.

Vertex is a rebadge with junk on top claiming to be something better.

There is a difference, massive difference.  

Arjailer

darcym said:

I find it hard to believe that anyone who is about to consider stocking a brand and asks for demo's doesn't at least google them to see how long the company has been around, do they eat babies etc, first hits on vertex pedals are huge amount of complaints, so I'd expect that to raise questions or at least a minor dig into things.

I think that must depend on your previous search history 'cos when I googled vertex pedals yesterday afternoon (having never heard of the guy before this thread) the first page of hits were just his website, stores selling the pedals and a Robben Ford endorsement.

This morning (after doing some more specific googling yesterday afternoon) the Robben Ford endorsement is still the 6th hit, and only mention of controversy on my first page of hits is Confessions of a Snake oil Salesman (a prosoundweb thread) as the 8th hit - nearly at the bottom of the page.

Not saying Anderton's couldn't have dug deeper - but it's not just as simple as "first hits on vertex pedals are huge amount of complaints" - that's just not the case for everyone.

not_the_dj

I must have been living under a rock as I had no idea about this guy.

If I google vertex pedals google helpfully tries to autocomplete it with "controversy"

peteri

I'm not a recent Andertons customer, but I have bought in the past - and I've enjoyed some of the masterclasses.

Recent years, I've not found them competitive and my buying habits have changed so I've moved away from them.

I don't mean anything to be personal below:

I've watched a lot of Lee's videos, seen him talking at Masterclasses - he seems a genuine likeable guy, but once in a while (like most of us) he makes a bit of a howling error.

That's ok for most of us, and no doubt Lee wants to be treated the same - but sometimes he doesn't seem to realise he will be judged by different rules. He has developed a brand and become the face of a brand in the internet age, much like (say) Virgin with Richard Branson you immediate associate Lee with Andertons, with the online presence and the videos and for many of us - much more so than the small(ish) shop in Guilford.

That's where Lee seems to struggle, and I get it - he's doing the best he can, he's likely always worked at the shop which likely means he's learning as he goes, he's not worked in other companies, other industries and probably (I'm guessing) not gone through the 'management/PR training' he would have done in a different company or field.

The net result of this for me is that when he feels criticised or that there is injustice he doesn't always react in the way we'd want or expect him to - I'm thinking of the 'dickheads' video which came across to me as really embarrassing, even though it was well meant.

Similarly some of the 'Chappers' videos a year or so ago, where (for me) they definitely stepped over a humour line.

And I think in Lee's response to this, when I read basically 'if you don't want to shop at Andertons because of this, that's fine' - that's not the attitude I want to read from a retailer, regardless of the issue - I want to feel valued and important and that sentiment doesn't do that.

Now I know Thomann, Peach etc likely have the same mindset - i.e. control what you can and accept what you can't - but they don't spell it out like that and as directly as that.

And that for me is why I will likely decide not to shop at them again, Vertex pedals I can decide myself whether I buy them or not (it will be not, I don't buy pedals anymore) - but equally I can decide to put my trade through someone who will at least pretend I matter.

dindude

OK let's assume for a moment that Lee knew nothing about Vertex scandal, despite employing 100 people whom many of which will be guitarists.

Lee's a savvy businessman and if I were him I'd be fucking furious at Mason. i.e. You (Mason) sat on screen and told me how much Landau loved your pedals but forgot to tell me that he wrote you a letter saying that he wouldn't touch you with a barge pole and offered to refund out of is own money he felt so strongly! Not content with ruining your own reputation and business you now want to ruin mine?

The only cause for action here is "thank you internet for pointing out something I didn't know, I won't be dealing with or stocking Vertex from here on in".

Lee's support for Vertex after knowing about it is what will define this episode.

Heartfeltdawn

digitalscream said:

In any case...my point was that if he ditched the product line at this point, he'd be setting a precedent for the often-wrong hate machine to bring up every time he stocks a product that folk don't like.

"The often-wrong hate machine" in this case wasn't a load of illiterate Twitter users. It started with people who analysed Vertex pedals and cables, made their findings public, and then got hit by cease and desist letters in some cases. It was a number of weeks after those letters went out that Mason finally admitted how he'd fucked up. 

Fraud and deception are comparatively rare in guitar circles. When it happens, you tend to find the offenders repeat their actions. The guys from Music Ground are obvious examples. Taylor McGrath guitars. Freekish Blues. A couple of amp guys who promised and never delivered. You could throw in the two forum scammers we've dealt with here.

So when folk view a video by a major retailer and Mason's blasting out the same shit about his academic background whilst dropping the two finger salute at the like of Analogman and Keeley, he still looks like the same egoistical devious little prick that he was before. 

I wouldn't boycott Andertons because of it but I am astounded that Lee doesn't know of the background to this case.

octatonic

I'm predicting that for all the second chance talk that Mason will be unlikely to get another order from Andertons and they will just run the stock out.

RMJ

I'm amazed that have shifted 40 units so far. Who is buying them? If you know about pedals surely you have heard about Vertex and are unlikely to buy. And if you dont know much about pedals why are you spunking 150+ without doing some research? 

Heartfeltdawn

Robben Ford's bought all 40. 

octatonic

RMJ said:

I'm amazed that have shifted 40 units so far. Who is buying them? If you know about pedals surely you have heard about Vertex and are unlikely to buy. And if you dont know much about pedals why are you spunking 150+ without doing some research? 

It happens.

Not everyone researches their purchases.
Some people walk in and buy sports cars, or houses without doing a lot of research.

octatonic

octatonic said:

RMJ said:

I'm amazed that have shifted 40 units so far. Who is buying them? If you know about pedals surely you have heard about Vertex and are unlikely to buy. And if you dont know much about pedals why are you spunking 150+ without doing some research? 

It happens.

Not everyone researches their purchases.
Some people walk in and buy sports cars, or houses without doing a lot of research.

probably not at Andertons though.

Paul7926

RMJ said:

I'm amazed that have shifted 40 units so far. Who is buying them? If you know about pedals surely you have heard about Vertex and are unlikely to buy. And if you dont know much about pedals why are you spunking 150+ without doing some research? 

I think it's probably people that have got into playing in the last few years.  I personally knew nothing of the guy until that video caused the outcry that it did.  I've only been dabbling in guitar for a year.  Now personally I'm not in the market for expensive pedals.  I don't have the money so all but 2 of mine are from the second hand market and usually the cheaper end of the market anyway.  

I was certainly in the camp of people that liked (and used) Andertons for the you tube content and would have assumed that if Lee was endorsing and selling the pedals then there wouldn't have been the 'history' to the guy that there so obviously is. 

Which does leave me feeling more than slightly silly for placing that much trust in them.  I'm not going down the 'I'll never use Andertons again' route but I'm much less trusting of them as a company because of it.

I'll never buy anything that has this Mason guy anywhere near it in future tho so I guess I learned something.