Unbelievable achievement! Free soloist climber Alex Honnold

Brio

Free Solo, Dawn Wall and Valley Uprising live on all my mobile devices. Brilliant films about sonething I can never do.

Emp_Fab

Maniac.  You just know it's only a matter of time before the inevitable news "Climber Alex Honnold has died after falling XXX feet in a tragic accident".

No matter how skilled you are, you are always rolling the dice.

As Bones once put it...  "Goddamn irresponsible - playing games with life"

sinbaadi

Emp_Fab said:

Maniac.  You just know it's only a matter of time before the inevitable news "Climber Alex Honnold has died after falling XXX feet in a tragic accident".

No matter how skilled you are, you are always rolling the dice.

As Bones once put it...  "Goddamn irresponsible - playing games with life"

Possibly, but that's not how he sees it.

For him it's the same as anyone doing anything with a risk attached, and he doesn't consider it reckless.

Emp_Fab

In the same way someone playing Russian roulette might not think they're being reckless.  Ok, the odds are significantly better but the principle is the same.

He's basically gambling his life on his ability to gauge with absolute certainty whether a handhold isn't unexpectedly slippery or has an invisible fracture.

It's grossly irresponsible to his friends and family and the emergency responders and surgeons that might try to put him back together should he fall.

Yes, there are many high-risk pastimes but all of them at least try to mitigate the risks.

I can't deny it's thrilling to watch but it's really the equivalent of superbike racing in the nude on a track made of cheese graters and angry scorpions.

zedhex

I climbed the stairs once without holding the banister.

CHRISB50

Emp_Fab said:

In the same way someone playing Russian roulette might not think they're being reckless.  Ok, the odds are significantly better but the principle is the same.

He's basically gambling his life on his ability to gauge with absolute certainty whether a handhold isn't unexpectedly slippery or has an invisible fracture.

It's grossly irresponsible to his friends and family and the emergency responders and surgeons that might try to put him back together should he fall.

Yes, there are many high-risk pastimes but all of them at least try to mitigate the risks.

I can't deny it's thrilling to watch but it's really the equivalent of superbike racing in the nude on a track made of cheese graters and angry scorpions.

Have you seen the film? Or do you know anything about him, other than he sometimes climbs without a rope?

In the film it explains how he thinks. 

He assesses risk very differently, as his skill level is very different to most.

Sure there are risks involved in what he does, but he does takes steps to minimise them as much as possible.

stimpsonslostson

CHRISB50 said:

Emp_Fab said:

In the same way someone playing Russian roulette might not think they're being reckless.  Ok, the odds are significantly better but the principle is the same.

He's basically gambling his life on his ability to gauge with absolute certainty whether a handhold isn't unexpectedly slippery or has an invisible fracture.

It's grossly irresponsible to his friends and family and the emergency responders and surgeons that might try to put him back together should he fall.

Yes, there are many high-risk pastimes but all of them at least try to mitigate the risks.

I can't deny it's thrilling to watch but it's really the equivalent of superbike racing in the nude on a track made of cheese graters and angry scorpions.

Have you seen the film? Or do you know anything about him, other than he sometimes climbs without a rope?

In the film it explains how he thinks. 

He assesses risk very differently, as his skill level is very different to most.

Sure there are risks involved in what he does, but he does takes steps to minimise them as much as possible.

Exactly this.

He uses ropes until he's completely secure in his confidence that he can do the moves without the rope. 
If he's not confident, then he walks away from it. 
The "Boulder Problem" almost caused him to abandon his ambition to do El Cap. 



To me what he does is no worse than racing motorcycles or even boxing. There are significant risks, but through skill, planning and care they can be mitigated but not eliminated. 

Emp_Fab

stimpsonslostson said:

To me what he does is no worse than racing motorcycles or even boxing. There are significant risks, but through skill, planning and care they can be mitigated but not eliminated. 

It is very, very different, mainly because in free soloing, the one time you make one mistake and slip, you die.  That cannot be said about any other activity with perhaps the exception of that other unhinged 'sport' of free diving - and even that is very often done with the safety of emergency scuba divers on hand.

Lose your grip once in free soloing and, barring a miracle where you manage to cling on with your other limbs, you are going to plummet to your near-certain death.

sinbaadi

Emp_Fab said:

stimpsonslostson said:

To me what he does is no worse than racing motorcycles or even boxing. There are significant risks, but through skill, planning and care they can be mitigated but not eliminated. 

It is very, very different, mainly because in free soloing, the one time you make one mistake and slip, you die.  That cannot be said about any other activity with perhaps the exception of that other unhinged 'sport' of free diving - and even that is very often done with the safety of emergency scuba divers on hand.

Lose your grip once in free soloing and, barring a miracle where you manage to cling on with your other limbs, you are going to plummet to your near-certain death.

One serious mistake and he falls, yes.  His version of mistake would be slightly imperfect hand placement.

So it's a bit like crossing a UK NSL road when you look at it like that.

I get what you're saying, but that's not how he sees it and your line of what is acceptable is completely arbitrary.  How do you feel about close proximity wingsuit flying Vs "normal" skydiving?

Shrews

At what point do these guys say 'enough is enough'?  It can't be when they make a mistake because then they'd be dead. Do they risk assess injuries, aches, mental wellbeing etc or reluctantly give in to the wishes of loved ones perhaps through having kids? 

Or just continue until the inevitable happens?

I'm guessing there's no 'toning down' with it either. You can't really go from a 600m free climb to a 50m free climb, because likely it will still kill you and anything between 10m-50m is likely to cause you life changing injuries which is surely their pet hate (they'd rather be dead than in a wheelchair?).

Pjon

stimpsonslostson said:

CHRISB50 said:

Emp_Fab said:

In the same way someone playing Russian roulette might not think they're being reckless.  Ok, the odds are significantly better but the principle is the same.

He's basically gambling his life on his ability to gauge with absolute certainty whether a handhold isn't unexpectedly slippery or has an invisible fracture.

It's grossly irresponsible to his friends and family and the emergency responders and surgeons that might try to put him back together should he fall.

Yes, there are many high-risk pastimes but all of them at least try to mitigate the risks.

I can't deny it's thrilling to watch but it's really the equivalent of superbike racing in the nude on a track made of cheese graters and angry scorpions.

Have you seen the film? Or do you know anything about him, other than he sometimes climbs without a rope?

In the film it explains how he thinks. 

He assesses risk very differently, as his skill level is very different to most.

Sure there are risks involved in what he does, but he does takes steps to minimise them as much as possible.

Exactly this.

He uses ropes until he's completely secure in his confidence that he can do the moves without the rope. 
If he's not confident, then he walks away from it. 
The "Boulder Problem" almost caused him to abandon his ambition to do El Cap. 



Was the Boulder Problem the one where he couldn't do it, and hadn't done it until he tried it without ropes? So, without ropes he was either going to be a hero or be dead, which is pretty much exactly what Emp_Fab is saying.

Pjon

PS why is it so difficult to properly format a comment on this forum? Or is it just me?  

bertie

Pjon said:

PS why is it so difficult to properly format a comment on this forum? Or is it just me?  

its just you

Pjon

bertie said:

Pjon said:

PS why is it so difficult to properly format a comment on this forum? Or is it just me?  

its just you

Damn!

Emp_Fab

I get it that it's your life to do whatever you want with and Honnold's choices would be absolutely fine IF he had no friends or family, but he does have those things and he has a responsibility to them.

Partaking of an activity that is SO dangerous that one mistake will cost you your life is the equivalent of saying to your loved ones "I don't give a shit about you, my only priority is my own adrenaline rush."

Vintage65

Emp_Fab said:

stimpsonslostson said:

To me what he does is no worse than racing motorcycles or even boxing. There are significant risks, but through skill, planning and care they can be mitigated but not eliminated. 

It is very, very different, mainly because in free soloing, the one time you make one mistake and slip, you die.  That cannot be said about any other activity with perhaps the exception of that other unhinged 'sport' of free diving - and even that is very often done with the safety of emergency scuba divers on hand.

Lose your grip once in free soloing and, barring a miracle where you manage to cling on with your other limbs, you are going to plummet to your near-certain death.

You can make a mistake going up the stairs resulting in an untimely death. So what is the solution, avoid the stairs and sleep on the sofa every night?

sinbaadi

Emp_Fab said:

I get it that it's your life to do whatever you want with and Honnold's choices would be absolutely fine IF he had no friends or family, but he does have those things and he has a responsibility to them.

Partaking of an activity that is SO dangerous that one mistake will cost you your life is the equivalent of saying to your loved ones "I don't give a shit about you, my only priority is my own adrenaline rush."

I could try to explain how it's not as simple as that but I don't think you get it.

Lots of free solo climbers die. Lots of wing suit pilots die.  Lots of Everest mountaineers die.

None of that stuff is necessary and the deaths will affect their loved ones.