School me on Fender Guitar Amps

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I asked about Fender Hot Rod Deluxe on behalf of a relative.

And I got to realising - as if I didn't already realise - how ignorant I am in my knowledge of the wonderful world of Fender amplification.

So, I await whatever wisdom this way comes.

BenSirAmos

Fender Twin Reverb. Stupid loud. Stupid heavy. Sounds fantastic. I prefer the silverface. Mine is from 1976 (I think) which means that it has a master volume (okay) with a pull out switch for some sort of fuzz sound - I never worked out what it was meant to sound like because I couldn't bear it. Too heavy to lift in and out of your boot at poxy little gigs on a regular basis, Which is why I got a:

Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. I took the missus out to try a load of lighter amps. I switched on a HRD with nothing plugged into it and she said "That's the one for you". She knew my sound from the hiss alone - and was right. I've learned to love it more and more over the years and I've found nothing else that is as good without being twice as heavy. If I was going to a studio, I'd take the Twin and an old Hi-Watt 4x12 too. Same if I get a gig at Wembley Stadium. But for all other circumstances, the HRD is lighter and does the job. 

Richardj

Well worth remembering that virtually every valve amp today owes it's roots in some way to a Fender amp.  There are certainly  improvements to the designs but as a base line for clean tones you pretty much have to have a Fender.  I have other amps (Cornford, Koch and H&K) that are better for rock etc but I just wouldn't be without a Fender valve amp in the house.

ToneControl

Richardj said:

Well worth remembering that virtually every valve amp today owes it's roots in some way to a Fender amp.  There are certainly  improvements to the designs but as a base line for clean tones you pretty much have to have a Fender.  I have other amps (Cornford, Koch and H&K) that are better for rock etc but I just wouldn't be without a Fender valve amp in the house.

I thought Vox were not derivative of Fender

Richardj

I did say virtually.  Marshall certainly based the original designs on Fender and Randall Smith at MESA started off repairing and modding before designing his own.  Hartley Peavey always nods towards Leo Fender when talking about his designs.  I'm not saying they are automatically the best, but you can see the influence in a lot of places.

jpfamps

ToneControl said:

Richardj said:

Well worth remembering that virtually every valve amp today owes it's roots in some way to a Fender amp.  There are certainly  improvements to the designs but as a base line for clean tones you pretty much have to have a Fender.  I have other amps (Cornford, Koch and H&K) that are better for rock etc but I just wouldn't be without a Fender valve amp in the house.

I thought Vox were not derivative of Fender

The early VOX amps are probably more influenced by hi-fi designs, or at least designs in the application notes for domestic UK-made valves, for example the use of the EF86 pentode.

All the valve manufacturers published example circuits in order to encourage the use their valves.

Incidentally the VOX top boost circuit is lifted verbatim from the 50s Gibson GA-77 and/or GA-70 amps. I have no idea if Gibson originated this circuit, but this is the earliest implementation I can find.

Gibson were very experimental in their circuits (they produced over 180 different amps over the years), so if it's been used anywhere you can usually find a Gibson amp that did it as well.

ThePrettyDamned

Gibson had 180 different amps?! Blimey. I've only seen one, a nasty solid state thing but it had a great trem circuit.

GavRichList

As a clumsy rule of thumb, almost unbeatable clean sound, and any distortion channels sound a bit fizzy and pish. Reverbs are pretty good too. I was a strict "only fender amps for me" man until I switched to a Blackstar Artisan 30. Had a twin, a pro reverb and a couple of blues deluxe, and all were great.

57Deluxe

...everyone should own at least one classic Fender tube amp! IS THE RULES!

close2u

57Deluxe said:

...everyone should own at least one classic Fender tube amp! IS THE RULES!

Good comments so far ... I'd like to know about the different models (blackface, silverface, twin, blues etc), their characteristics, their pros / cons ... what they are specifically known to do / be good for ... even if it is in general (cliche) terms.

57Deluxe

/\ is no cons other than portability; differences between silverface and blackface vary depending upon era/revision models;circuit characteristics between Twin/Supers/Quadraverbs etc is minimal apart from amount of air they can move. 

The Blues Junior and Pro jr are EL84 tubes

The more modern Hot Rods and Supersonics have dedicated drive channels but are based around classic 6L6 circuits

The Tweeds are for us specialist users only!!

ToneControl

yes, my Tweed Twin is lovely

jpfamps

ThePrettyDamned said:

Gibson had 180 different amps?! Blimey. I've only seen one, a nasty solid state thing but it had a great trem circuit.

Gibson actually started making amps in 1930s!

ThePrettyDamned

jpfamps;220393" said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Gibson had 180 different amps?! Blimey. I've only seen one, a nasty solid state thing but it had a great trem circuit.





Gibson actually started making amps in 1930s!

Absolutely astonished!

Are there any stand out models in your opinion? I've heard of a few, but... That's loads!

raulduke

I have a modded Fender tweed champ clone head I built (bought the bits from ampmaker.co.uk) and its my 'go to' for playing at home.

I'm always lusting after a princeton reverb though. They are simply beautiful amps.

Brownface amps are incredibly cool too (the harmonic tremolo is awesome) but they are as rare as rocking horse sh*t in the UK!

Gagaryn

I've been thinking of building a champ clone for a while, from a kit too - I barely understand the basics of how amps work - though I'm educating myself at the moment with The Soul Of Tone - fantastic book.

raulduke

I would highly, highly, recommend you (or anyone else) go over to Ampmaker and get yourself one of their WF-55 kits.

http://www.ampmaker.com/store/WF-55-4w-tweed-style-amp.html

£155.00 for the kit including valves (JJ's shipped with mine). They are based in the UK as well. What more could you want

As long as you are incredibly careful (the voltages residing in valve amps can kill) and follow the instructions to a tee you should have no problems.

The champ is about as simple as valve amp circuits get. It is also about pure as valve tone gets (mine sounds absolutely fab through my 2x12).

Here is my champ head (mods include princeton tone control, switchable cathode bypass caps, and switchable feedback):

Pyroman

  "Tweed" Fenders, are generally voiced to be a tad darker, and less sparkly on the cleans than the "Blackface" and Silverface" models.  ( which, if I understand it correctly are the same models, but different versions)

  If you want a bright, sparkly clean- go for a BF or SF model, like a twin reverb, a Deluxe Reverb, or a Princeton Reverb, or a Pro Reverb.  These amps also come with a real tremolo effect, that sounds wonderful.

  If you like a warmer clean, that can be fairly easily pushed into a sweet drive, look into a Tweed type amp.  Bassman, Deluxe, Champ,  Twin amp, Bandmaster, or Blues Deluxe.  Many of these do not have tremolo.

  There are some oddballs worth looking into, as well.  The Supersonic series is their higher gain line.  They're two channel amps, but both channels also have a voicing switch, and the lead channel has 2 gain controls, to help you dial in whichever sort of gain you like. 

  Interestingly enough, the clean channel is different for each model.  SS22 has a vintage/ modern switch.  SS60 has vibroluxe/ Bassman, and I forget what the 100 watt version has.   On the SS60, the Vibroluxe setting is your "Fender Clean"- that bright sparkly clean Brand F is rightly famous for.  The bassman setting is warmer- (as well as louder!), and can be driven to a nice bluesy, classic rock crunch as well.  The Drive channel will give you anything from  light crunch, to a balls out distortion, depending on how you set it.  Needless to say, the SS60 is stupid loud, but dear God, it sounds good.

  As noted by others, MOST Fenders are based around 6v6 or 6L6 power valves.

  I used to be all about the bright, glassy single coils into a Blackface sound, but have gradually migrated to the warmer, darker Tweed style clean.  Both with and without single coils.  And, for the record, there's nothing like the sound of a Gibson (style) guitar into a tweed amp!

  The best way to school yourself is to find a good Fender dealer, and try out as wide a selection as possible.

Gagaryn

raulduke said:

I would highly, highly, recommend you (or anyone else) go over to Ampmaker and get yourself one of their WF-55 kits.

http://www.ampmaker.com/store/WF-55-4w-tweed-style-amp.html

£155.00 for the kit including valves (JJ's shipped with mine). They are based in the UK as well. What more could you want

As long as you are incredibly careful (the voltages residing in valve amps can kill) and follow the instructions to a tee you should have no problems.

The champ is about as simple as valve amp circuits get. It is also about pure as valve tone gets (mine sounds absolutely fab through my 2x12).

Here is my champ head (mods include princeton tone control, switchable cathode bypass caps, and switchable feedback):

Funnily enough, that's the site I was looking at. I think I will give this a go in the summer. I fancy putting it in a Princeton sized combo cab, anyone know where you can get such things made at a reasonable price - I ain't no carpenter!

ICBM

jpfamps said:

Incidentally the VOX top boost circuit is lifted verbatim from the 50s Gibson GA-77 and/or GA-70 amps.

But they made a mistake - or actually, whoever drew the Gibson schematic did, and Vox copied the mistake. That's why the Vox bass knob becomes a mid cut when it's turned up full - the pot shouldn't have a ground connection.

jpfamps

ICBM said:

jpfamps said:

Incidentally the VOX top boost circuit is lifted verbatim from the 50s Gibson GA-77 and/or GA-70 amps.

But they made a mistake - or actually, whoever drew the Gibson schematic did, and Vox copied the mistake. That's why the Vox bass knob becomes a mid cut when it's turned up full - the pot shouldn't have a ground connection.

You can always tell when someone has copied something when they copy the mistakes!

The bass pot is also wired backwards, ie the bass decreases are you turn it up.

Incidentally we use a variation on this tone stack in our amps, but not driven by a cathode follower.