How does Andy Timmons get his sound ???

Dave_Mc

ChrisMusic said:

Interesting stuff on pickups.  I appreciate your comments on the Tone Zone and the possible relationship to the AT @Dave_Mc, I realise it was speculativ.  Good observations from the available specs.

No worries. Just don't want you to buy something based on what's (at best) maybe a half-educated guess. And at worst total speculation with nothing behind it (since judging on specs alone normally is a bad idea) )

Adji

ChrisMusic said:

Interesting stuff on pickups.  I appreciate your comments on the Tone Zone and the possible relationship to the AT @Dave_Mc, I realise it was speculativ.  Good observations from the available specs.

@Adji, intriguing choice of pickups there, especially the Lace Sensors.  I hope you don't mind me asking, but what were the reasons for changing from the stock Suhr pickups, and for choosing the Laces and the AT1 ?  Also what do you use amp wise?

Don't mind you asking at all bud! The Suhr pickups were great, they were really nice but I've never been a massive fan of true single coils (although I am heading that way a bit now) and the Lace Sensors are hotter and warmer than a single coil but not as hot as a humbucker. Used Lace sensors in and out of guitars for years and I tend to find myself going back to them.
Suhr also wire the guitars reaosnably complexly. There was a HUGE switch with capacitors and resistors stuck all over it and honestly, I just want typical 'strat' style wiring, the simpler the better under the pickguard for me so I had the whole thing taken apart and rewired more like a simple strat.
I originally had a dual lace sensor pup in the bridge but it was just too damn hot, had a more EMG character about it which I'm not a big fan of at all. I was big into Timmons at the time so thought I would give his pickup a go. That was probably 3 years or so ago now and I sitll like the pickup though I'm itching for a change again haha.

Amp wise I use a H&K Trilogy usually into a Zilla 2x12.

The music I play on the suhr is varied. It is my 'go to' guitar for pretty much everything other than heavy stuff..

koneguitarist

Must admit, I had to google him as I had no idea who he was, still don't for that matter! He can play though.

xwolf5150

Andy had always used the Duncan JB.
He preferred it with 250k pots but his Dimarzio Cruisers were designed to be used with 500k pots.
To get around this, Dimarzio voiced his AT-1 to sound like a JB with 250k pots, but using 500k pots.

ChrisMusic

Thanks for the pickup info @wolf5150.  Interesting, I would never have guessed that.  There is far more detail in how he has moulded the details of his gear than I would have expected when I started this enquiry.  Given his musical attention to detail and nuance, maybe I shouldn't be surprised though.

I appreciate your reply @Adji, I want to try out some Lace Sensors at some point.  I assume that the dual was two reds, did you consider trying them in parallel ?  (maybe not if you don't like complicating the wiring and usability)  It is good to get a perspective on the whole signal chain, so I appreciate the amp and speaker info too.  BTW what is the Zilla loaded with ?.  They are nice looking cabs.

Well @koneguitarist, I am surprised he is not better known too.  Did you get as far as the "bonus" chicken pickin track at the end of the Resolution gig?  He does seem to like his Tele too.

I guess that instrumental rock is a more niche market after grunge changed peoples perceptions of guitar based music.  He doesn't seem to gig much with the Andy Timmons Band in the US, which really surprised me, although he does tour in Europe, especially Italy, and also in Japan from what I can gather.  The Japan thing is thanks to his profile from the pop/metal Danger Danger days, but then I can see that going down well in Japan given recent postings on here.  He does work with other artists both touring and recording.

Even the tie in with Steve Vai and the Favoured Nations label hasn't propelled him into the spotlight.  Shame that.

koneguitarist

Must admit I didn't get that far, just took a look, great player but playing rock on a tele does not make it chicken picking, sorry.

Like a lot of country pickers playing Rick, it generally sounds wrong as the feel is not there. 

Certainly good player though.

ChrisMusic

Just for @koneguitarist.

Warning ~ country content  

You'll need to tell me if this is chicken pickin, but Andy says it is so here goes.  Dodgy camera and sound I am afraid, but it does get a bit lively near the end.

Farmer Sez

Duration 5:09

Headed For The Ditch live from Live Resolution   ~  so good quality - enjoy

Duration 3:26

Alternatively you can just go back to the recording of Resolution Live at 48:35 in the original post.

ChrisMusic

Hey there @Catthan, thanks for the extra info.

How close to the big 6L6 Lone Stars is the LS Special with it's EL84s ?

I assume there is quite a difference in tone, and probably clean headroom too.

I know EL84s are supposed to breakup earlier too.

There seems to be a large difference in tone between 6L6 power sections and EL84s.

Edit: typo, Loan Star indeed; bit of a Freudian slip, was I really thinking of getting that damn credit card out again ? ! ?

Dave_Mc

ChrisMusic said:

Thanks for the pickup info @wolf5150.  Interesting, I would never have guessed that. 

+1

I'll defer to him

koneguitarist

@chrismusic. Sorry not convinced. There was a thread about playing outside your regular genre, and I think although you can play the notes etc, quite often the feel is wrong.  

Sorry but to me that's a rock player playing pseudo country licks. 

I think only a couple of rock guys seem able to pull off the country stuff well and that's these guys.

http://youtu.be/bBAkBG8raMs

http://youtu.be/WuXPBoTz2Oc

Catthan

hi Chris, there is difference in headroom which comes from the additional 65W provided by the 6l6s in the LS. regarding the early break up of the el84s, I can't really comment as I never had to crank the amp more than half-way up so I can't quantify the contribution of the el84s clipping to the overall tone. 

The few times I gigged mine I never run out of headroom.

I think that like most Mesas, the LSS gets most of its tone from the preamp and then there are some lower wattage switchable options for those who want the power section cooking too. 

From people owning both versions my understanding is that they are more similar than different, specially at the volumes most of us play at (small venues and home)

 some claim that the Special has some"special" character which compensates for the lack of wattage and 6l6 punch but I don't have any experience with the big one.

If you are interested,  I would advise to visit a shop and check them out; you have more chances of finding a special than the big one though. 

judging from mine, both are really good amps. 

ChrisMusic

Hey @Catthan thanks, it is good to get an impression from someone who owns one.

You are right, they are a bit thin on the ground to go and audition one.

What made you choose one rather than the more ubiquitous Fenders ?

ChrisMusic

OK then @koneguitarist, I'll defer to your experienced ear here.   AT still sounds like chicken pickin to me in those videos, just like Johnny Highland does (great talent), but then I am not that up on country.  As you said about playing outside your genre, I think the same applies to listening outside it too.  It takes time and experience to gain a perspective and pick up the feel and nuances which make it work, or at least are accepted as correct for the genre.

Thanks for the video reply, that Sugar Foot Rag was pretty damn good  

ChrisMusic

Another piece of the jigsaw, his use of an original Octavia pedal on the track Helipad, from Resolution

And more recently is using a GNI Octa Fuzz and also a GNI Vintage Distortion Multi Fuzz, in fuzz mode 3, which I assume is the same circuitry as the Octa Fuzz has.  I have seen both on his pedal boards.

http://www.nigstrings.com.br/gni/

ProGuitar Shop were stocking GNI pedals, but they seem to have dropped them now, no idea why.

Andy Timmons talks through the pedal and demonstrates

Duration 3:28

PGS demo of the full pedal

Duration 5:58

Catthan

@ChrisMusic, this, (4:20 onward). 

I had a lovely Suhr Badger 30 but I needed a 2-channel amp and after hearing-watching this vid to work out the parts I recognized the amp from AT's demos and got one. A bit of a hasty move though as it turned out it was not really what I needed, as much as I like it.

But still, it has served me really really well and is a great amp.

koneguitarist

ChrisMusic said:

OK then @koneguitarist, I'll defer to your experienced ear here.   AT still sounds like chicken pickin to me in those videos, just like Johnny Highland does (great talent), but then I am not that up on country.  As you said about playing outside your genre, I think the same applies to listening outside it too.  It takes time and experience to gain a perspective and pick up the feel and nuances which make it work, or at least are accepted as correct for the genre.

Thanks for the video reply, that Sugar Foot Rag was pretty damn good  

No problem Chris, wish I could play country like Andy Timmons let alone John 5 and the rest !

Deijavoo

I'm sure you've heard this before but:

ChrisMusic

Thanks @Deijavoo, sounds pretty good to me (the amp that is).  Good to have this as reference here in the discussion / thread, so thanks for posting it.

Lone Star 6L6s and class AB vs the LS Special's EL84s and class A.  Very different component and topology specs for sure.  I wonder if the preamp section is identical between them ?

Edit: reference to class A operation, it is not strictly true class A

ChrisMusic

To summarise what I have learned so far on the gear front:  (core kit is highlighted in bold)

His amp choices have been Marshall ’68 Plexi and ’79 JMP, he was previously with Laney (they were going to do a sig amp), currently using Mesa.

Main amps: Mesa Lone Star and Stiletto Deuce 2, into 2x12 Rectifier cabinets with Mesa V30s for each amp.

He has recently been using a Mesa TA 30 in addition as well (although that may just be Mesa giving him one to play with .

Effects on the floor or racked and switched:

Peterson Strobostomp Tuner

Budda BudWah

Carl Martin compressor (as a boost), Xotic compressor (squishy),

Xotic BB, Xotic RC, Tube Works Tube Driver, Blues Driver, TS 808 Tube screamer, (I get the feeling he has a big collection to chose from)

GNI multi fuzz & vintage distortion or GNI Octa Fuzz (he uses either for the Octavia sound), he is also prototyping a GNI signature fuzz.

Various switcher systems including Radius, Carl Martin Octa Switch and DMC ground control GCX

TC chorus, GNI dual chorus, MXR ? phaser,

In the amps effects loop:  2x Deluxe Memory man or Strymon Timeline

some of the above choices may be dictated by doing fly dates with clinics etc.

Effects board 2011 - from a video of a paid studio session:

Tele into Mesa TA30 or Lone Star - Tuner, Carl Martin compressor, Tube screamer, GNI multi fuzz & vintage distortion, Blues driver, 2x TimeLine, orange box phaser / mod and at least one other pedal.

His main amp settings and effects used in 2008 & on Resolution are discussed in some detail in the videos kindly posted by digitalscream , ~ those three videos you posted at the start, were pretty much spot on with all the information I needed, thanks.     >link here<

Having said that, I am extremely grateful for everyone else who has either contributed so far, or continues to contribute information and ideas to this discussion, cheers guys.

I will try and update this post with additional information, or amendments as and when I discover more.

Elx

@ChrisMusic, the Peterson Strobostomp Tuner is the most annoying piece of gear I've ever used. I will never understand why people keep talking about it. It's constantly moving, those lines, and it seems that the guitar is never in tune I guess it's precise, but you don't need that kind of accuracy at the expense of your eyesight and sanity...It drove me mad. Not pleasant to use at all....